Hi, everyone. Bigthinny Sweattano here, the internet's busiest music nerd.

I hope you are doing well. And you know what?

A ton of amazing, influential, groundbreaking, and super memorable albums are turning 20 years old this year. In fact, we have a new piece, a feature with many amazing writers that contribute to the site on it. The beautiful, talented people that we have working with us over there have compiled a bunch of these records spoken their praises in this massive piece, which is linked down below in the description box.

Obviously, I encourage you guys to go over and read it, especially since not every album in that piece is mentioned in this video. But what is this video?

Well, it's actually a series of short conversations with a handful of these writers talking about the albums they chose and why, how they feel about these records, and the legacies they have left us. So without any further ado, let's get into it.

Anthony: All right, we are going to kick things off with Leah, who decided to talk about Amy Winehouse's Back to Black for this piece. Why did you choose this record?

Leah: Yeah, when Back to Black came out, I had just turned three years old. So in terms of 2006, I feel like it's really-

A: Prime time for Back to Black.

L: It's really one of the only albums that have kind of endured and remained really notable, like up to today, that I considered writing about. And Back to Black, just culturally, is something that I grew up on and many people have grown up on. And it's just become this very, singular, modern classic that's going to be covered at karaoke nights for the rest of time.

A: Yeah, I mean, as somebody who was a lot older when the album came out, obviously, and was hip to what mainstream music trends were at the time, I think that's a funny observation with the whole karaoke thing, because I do think there was this kind of mass appeal level that the album hit that may have actually, in the immediate aftermath. And even after Amy's passing, worked against its cool factor for a little bit.

But it feels like people are kind of coming back around to it once again and are kind of looking back not only at the way that Amy was put through the ringer in the music industry, but now that that context around the record is gone, people are actually able to really appreciate it for what it is. Do you feel like that's kind of the perspective you're able to come at it from?

L: Yeah, definitely. I mean, there was just such a mystique surrounding her at the time, and all of the struggles that she kind of details on this album are ultimately overshadowed both by her vocal performance and just kind of the spectacle around her as a pop star at the time. And in the documentary that came out a few years ago about her, her manager said in a talking head that if she had not made this album and had chosen to go and take care of herself, she could be alive. So yeah, I think there is a lot to kind of wrestle with in terms of, at what cost does the music come at for the artist's well-being at times.

A: And where do you feel like the album's kind of sound and influence stands as of right now? Is this a record to you that to this day still sounds fresh? And do you feel like it's kind of fusion of pop and soul and elements of hip-hop too — still sorta stands as relevant right now? Or are there artists right now that you feel like are kind of picking up where Amy left off?

L: I mean, I feel like there are so many people that are trying to emulate it, even people that Mark Ronson himself has been working with that have tried to recapture that feeling and just have not been able to. Most recently, I think, Raye comes to mind. She's been working with Mark Ronson.

I feel like, "Where's My Husband" in particular, feels kind of like an attempt at a modern take on that kind of retro sound. I think that song in a vacuum is very charming. The rest of the album that that song ended up kind of coalescing around, I was not as impressed by, but it's good to know that there are people that are trying.

A: And I think if there's another thing that sort of stood out about Amy, it's really sort of her grit and sort of how unfiltered she was in her public presence and in her music as well.

Is that something that you feel like there are newer artists kind of carrying the torch for these days? Or do you think that in comparison with kind of the pop landscape of the time this album was born out of the things in comparison or maybe like a little sanitized in that there couldn't be an Amy Winehouse today because there would be sort of like some kind of stopgap preventing them from getting to this point.

L: Yeah, I'm trying to think in terms of, the authenticity of it all. Because I mean, especially for pop stars, they have to go through so many channels of sanitization. Especially with the press kind of being diluted in general in favor of just, them being able to tell their own stories on social media. The first person to me that comes to mind, and I feel like she isn't even like this as much as she was when she was a teenager, but Billie Eilish. I feel like she was very jaded in her interviews when she was still kind of on the rise.

And I think now, and I would assume that it's because of how the music industry has treated her as a young female pop star, she's since retreated from doing all of that.

A: Yeah, I mean, I think, and I, it's sort of important to separate that Amy had her difficulties, but outside of that, there was this sort of very off-the-cuff attitude to where it didn't seem like she thought or sort of methodically calculated every single thing that she said and she did. And it was sort of a part of her charm, and that sort of seems to be so much less the vibe that we're getting in a lot of entertainment these days with so many people being afraid of being perceived and saying the wrong thing.

L: Yeah, for sure. Because I mean, everything could be clipped and spread, a million times over if it's just one gaffe. And even people that you're, I guess this is a little of the moment topical, but Stella Lefty just became this big talking point out of nowhere because people keep catching her ripping off things or all her interviews where she's like, "I just really love going on my phone."

A: Hmm. Do you still hear echoes of this album today and a lot of the pop soul that I don't know, is kind of climbing the charts with the big names that have kind of arrived in the wake of Amy, be it either in Adele or in Olivia Dean, even a Raye to an extent? Because it just sort of seems like she's become, this looming legacy of the UK dishing out these massive sort of soul stars that just seemingly have no problem climbing up the charts.

L: I mean, Olivia Dean, in terms of sound, for sure, but I feel like she's much, much more innocent. It's a lot of daydreamy love songs that she's been putting out, and that's not what Amy's MO was. And I mean, she's found great success with what she's doing right now, which is great.

Adele, I do remember people, especially out of the gate when she was first getting her big hits in the early 2010s, where people would be like, "This is the second coming of Amy Winehouse." But that also, I feel like maybe it was just the strength of their voices as opposed to the actual style of their music.

Because I feel like beyond maybe a few of the songs on the debut Adele album, 19, I feel like sonically they're not really in the same lane.

A: Yeah, I mean, it's like, the more I think about it, the more it sort of feels like it was, at the time, a part of, this, I don't know... People throw the indie sleaze term around all the time now. But I feel like there was a generally, almost openness to sleaziness across the board on a lot of levels of popular entertainment and music around that time.

And I feel like Amy is maybe one of the last real vestiges of it. And it's kind of just, gone at this point.

L: Yeah. And Adele, if you think about it in terms of timeline, Adele was getting really huge around right after Amy Winehouse dying. So I think it was just, they were both kind of top of mind for people. And they have that similar, very strong — the British, timbre in their voice. So I could see why people were making those comparisons at the time, but I feel like those comparisons have not aged particularly well.

A: Hmm. All right. Well, thank you for coming on and talking about the album.

L: Yeah, of course.

Anthony: Believe it or not, we have on a call to involve himself in this video as well, the wonderful Jeremy, who edits most of the main channel videos [and is editor-in-chief of the site]; you guys have been seeing his edits for years and he has decided to partake in this conversation. And for this article that we put up on the site, you decided to talk about Joanna Newsom's, legendary YS. Why did you decide to pick this record for this piece?

Jeremy: Yeah, I chose Joanna Newsom. I say "ease" or "ees." I've never known which is correct. I chose this because for many reasons, first and foremost, I think for a very long time, she's been kind of far and away my favorite singer, songwriter and musician. Anyone who knows me well knows me to be a huge Joanna Newsom fan. And I think-

A: I know that on a personal level.

J: You know that. And I think this is her greatest record and I'm just happy it came out 20 years ago, so I was able to talk about it. I think it's kind of a perfect tense or a record. So I just wanted to sing its praises a little bit.

A: Yeah. I mean, given that she is, your fave, I, envy you, but also I mourn for you because she's, nowhere to be seen, it's... you're really sort of appreciating peak, but simultaneously, where is she? But with that,

J: Where in the world is Joanna Newsom with, with-

A: With so few albums to go off of, that means you have a lot of time to listen to the ones that that she does have.

J: And I do listen to them quite often.

A: And with that, how do you feel like a record like like this? Has, has aged and sort of measures up against all the kind of aesthetic, and and musical shifts that we've seen on the indie folk circuit over the years, because it's been a long time since I, I feel like she was originally kind of pigeonholed into that kind of like new, whatever you want to call it, like freak folk scene that she never actually identified with and even sort of like, threw off the labels of and sort of envisioned herself as being her own separate thing to begin with. And then from there, I feel like she still stands out as, as unique as she did the day that she kind of broke out.

Like one of the closest analogs I could think of today on the scene is like maybe Adrian Lenker. And I think their similarities are not even that many in number, she still kind of stands out as like a one of a kind artist.

J: Yeah. I mean, you said a lot there that is so true. I mean, when she broke in 2004 with The Milk-Eyed Mender, she was immediately lumped into the freak folk scene, kind of which was led in the early 2000s by a lot of other people. She never really wanted to be part of that scene as far as I understand it.

And I think the main reason she was included in it is just because her voice was weird. I think if someone with a more classically pretty voice happened to write harp songs, I don't think that they would have been lumped into that. I think it's because she had a weird voice and she did. And she still kind of does, but it's aged very gracefully. It's matured and changed over the years, but on that first record, it was pretty wild.

And unlike anything we had really heard, at least in a very long time, I know a lot of people compared her to Karen Dalton and people from like the '60s and '70s who came in with those warbly, very unique voices, but then YS around and she really just like, it was only two years later. She really hit it out of the park with this blend of folk music in its kind of oldest sense.

The harp is a very old instrument. But then she mixed it and matched it with these Van Dyke Park's orchestral – orchestrations, which were beautifully arranged and incredibly layered, very dense, and yet never in the way of what she was doing with her harp and her voice and her lyrics.

In fact, only one of, what I should say, one of the five songs on the record is "Sans Orchestra." It's just 10 minutes of harp. And I guess that's how the record started. And then she famously showed it to Van Dyke Parks and he was like, "Okay, yes, I'll do it." How it has withstood the test of time. I mean, you're right. She doesn't really have an analog.

I think Adrian Lanker comes up because Adrian Lenker is a similarly, extremely like poetic and imagistic writer who also kind of has a distinct voice, both literally and figuratively, but the similarities don't go very far. I think YS especially is quite timeless. I think it has the orchestra of like centuries ago mixed with a very modern production style. It was produced very famously produced by Steve Albini. And it sounds immaculate. It still does. I think for whatever reason, people in the indie folk scene, haven't really had to that point really gone to such fanciful heights with marrying folk and orchestral music. And honestly, I'm not really sure they have since.

I don't think it's very in Vogue for whatever reason to have such classical leanings mixing with folk music. And then beyond anything else, I mean, we've kind of buried the lead. These songs are long as hell, right? That's kind of the whole story of YS when it came out, it was like five songs, 55 minutes long and barely an instrumental break to be heard. So I think it just sort of stands really tall as this document of timelessness. I think it's aged incredibly well. It still sounds like it could have been made today or 10 years from now or in 1996.

I think it, it sounds like it could be from any time. And it's just so detailed and so layered. And so it's just so like — the minutia of that record is so there's so much to comb through. I mean, you mentioned, I don't have much to listen to. She has four records, but you can go back through any of them at any point and you'll probably find something new. And I think that is not something even the best of our current artists will be able to say in 20 years.

A: Yeah. And Have One On Me is massive. Massive.

J: Massive. It's two hours long.

A: It's multiple albums together.

J: Yeah.

A: But yeah, I echo everything that you, you say in the album sort of feels like it's still to this day feels so modern. But simultaneously it's not futuristic and sort of like, a stereotypical way that we typically view, something with that label to be due to effects and electronics and so on and so forth.

But I, I do think there is a modernness to that record simply because of how experimental it is and how unique her voice is and how that can't be tied to any one specific time play at time or era. But then, like you said, you have the Van Dyke string sections, which do have a certain flavor of a certain time.

And then rather than sort of viewing kind of the medieval context of the harp as baggage, she just leans into it instead.

J: Yeah.

A: Fully like, extremely. And there was, as, as much as you did get lumped into that scene, like you said, there was nobody else at that time who was doing that sort of thing. And I, I think I sort of ignored another kind of interesting, comparison that maybe is not as obvious, but somebody who's also kind of on the underground songwriter circuit and and pulls from similar influences as well as Richard Dawson, who also has like very literary and poetic lyricism, super long songs.

And while he does not, sort of like cover a lot of his tracks and harps, he has sort of like, made records that very purposefully pull from all of these medieval influences. And it's just such a kind of a rare sort of set of influences that I feel like, not a lot of people are kind of like all that well familiar with, but also are very difficult. Like you have to be a very studied musician and a very studied music fan to even think to go back there. And your average musician is just not there. It's just not there Not on Joanna Newsom's level. And which is fine. Yeah.

J: Which is fine.

A: Which is fine, I'm just sort of like... I guess my point is like one may mistake the fact that we don't have a dozen Joanna Newsom's running around is like a lack of influence when really in my mind, it's like she's held in high regard by a lot of songwriters, but like most people just can't execute on that level, even if they are inspired by her work and what she does, because it's just such a high bar.

J: Yeah. And I do want to note too, like we were calling. her indie folk, but like, frankly, she defies most genre boundaries because even YS, like the harp is lumped in with folk music because it's an old folk instrument. Like we're talking Celtic. We're talking Appalachian folk music like centuries ago, but it doesn't really feel like folk music.

I mean, we make the Adrian Linker comparison and her work, especially her solo work feels a lot more folk oriented in terms of like the modern definition of it. But YS really doesn't and it, but it doesn't quite feel like classical. And there's, there's not rock music.

So it's kind of this like weird realm that she, that she sort of exists within that bridges all these gaps, but also kind of defies all these gaps. And then furthermore, like on Have One On Me and beyond, she kind of went into a Americana jazz influenced direction. I remember thinking like how, how Southern a lot of Have One On Me felt and it wasn't country, but it was like horns and and like blues undertones.

And there's always been that little blues, like tug in her voice sometimes. And and I feel like YS was the last time she sounded like she could maybe be a folk musician. And now is just sort of like totally defying all genre.

Anthony: And next we have Jordan here who for the piece decided to do a little right on J Dilla's Donuts. Very lucky you to be waxing poetic on such an amazing and landmark album. Unique as well as heavily influential. I feel like there's no shortage of J Dilla copycats out there these days. So I mean, with that, how do you feel like this album has aged?

Do you feel like with the proliferation of people out there who have created sort of like Dilla type vibes abound? Has that sort of like lessened the impact of the album at all over the years?

Jordan: I think this album has actually aged quite well remarkably well. I mean, I remember in high school getting into this old school hip hop sound, the early 2000s to mid-2000s with like MF Doom, some Pete Rock here and there. I remember just feeling so acquainted with these sounds and then hearing Dilla was just completely something else that I wouldn't have expected that would hold the emotional gradual weight to it.

Fans can obviously theorize from samples, vocal samples like, is death real on the track stop or the why me from the closing track, "Welcome to the Show." While those theories might be a little far stretched, they definitely make sense within the context of how Dilla made this album.

He, for those who don't know, I wasn't aware of it the first few times I heard the record, but the myth goes, he essentially produced this thing from his deathbed. People were bringing him 45s, crate digging for him. He was getting sent players, MPCs, SP303s, and essentially chopping up what would be his grandiose final gift to the world, taking all of his influences from music; be it soul, instrumental hip hop, jazz, even some psych rock. And turning it into a full package of love and appreciation for, everything that's come into his life from the music to his families to the collaborators.

It's a sending away gift that is completely out of love and out of gratitude. And I think it's just held up remarkably well amongst music fans and those close within his producer, instrumental community.

A: What do you feel like it's meant for hip hop production and instrumental hip hop in general for this record to continue to be held as like the gold standard, as far as producer albums and instrumental hip hop albums go?

Is it a good thing that sort of like keeps things up to a certain kind of level of creativity and quality? Or has it kept people from maybe experimenting and pushing things forward because like people are going for that Dilla sound?

J: I mean, that's a good question because I feel that this beat tape in particular, there is more to it than beats the beat.

You can obviously go down the deeper meanings about the samples and who each track is dedicated for. But there's definitely a lot more than beats, like what is on each track. And it's to the point where I think that this is an album full of instrumentals that are not meant to be wrapped up.

I think the addition of all of these, I like to call them interruptions, within the beats give it kind of this impossible quality where anyone can just jump on it, lay a freestyle and have it be gold. Maybe with the exception of MF DOOM, that "Lightworks" beat is seriously out of this world.

But from like the beat repeating to it being in an un-sequenced position to random vocal splicing, interrupting the instrumental, tweaking the vocals to mean something different, or the place of the sirens all over the record, like these are his trademarks. He just doesn't need like one trademark sound.

Like these are all things that when you hear them, you know they're Dilla. And you know, it's these challenging aspects that I sort of come back to and sort of makes each beat unique for me.

When I'm replaying, or memorizing these beats in my head, I can sort of pinpoint like where it gets interrupted or when a specific, vocal is just snapped into the mix where it's totally not supposed to be. I think it just gives it that uniqueness and one of a kindness that I guess other producers aren't like, they're like a little afraid to experiment, like let the beat ride or challenge the audience's ears, like something's supposed to go one way and then it doesn't.

A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think like knowing his intentions or knowing that the album was built with the experience of him having had put together other beat tapes that hypothetically were used to sort of pitch material to other artists. So we can get placements on certain songs and so on and so forth.

All of those interruptions and all of that extra clutter and all of those noises and tags and sirens and sound effects and and so on and so on and so forth. In one context, as a producer, we're sort of like a defense mechanism against somebody being like, oh man, this beat is fire and I'll just use it and I'm not going to pay this guy or I'll just have somebody reproduce it and kind of create it from scratch or rip something out of it and repurpose it into something else.

All of that is sort of like working to prevent that sort of theft from happening back during a time when that kind of thing was difficult to track because we're talking like, his experience in the 90s and the early 2000s.

And hearing that in a different context as an audience that wouldn't normally be listening to a producer's beat tape that then becomes like an artistic choice and something that's like, "Oh, this is actually kind of fun to listen to," all of these random songs and sounds and change ups and off kilter rhythmic switches that would normally be, keeping somebody from stealing the beat. It becomes, an aesthetic in a way.

J: Yeah, it's funny because I think Questlove was talking about the way that he heard Dilla sequence like certain drum patterns and say, he's been working with Dilla for such a long time and he's never heard him do drum sequencing in the way that he's heard on this album. It's like, you're getting to hear another side of the same person that you've worked for for your entire life and it just completely emerges as something new and completely unexpected. I think in some points the album is like a little challenging for the listeners.

Like due to the way that things are spliced in, but I think it's also nostalgic in the way that it spins samples and the way that the samples kind of sound, fresh again or newly like repurposed in a way where you can barely recognize them. I go out like to the store and I hear For Once in My Life by Stevie Wonder, and it was just like only a few days ago where I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that song was there for like three seconds on this beat on Donuts," or this one Frank Zappa sample at the beginning of the song "Matches," like he wants to take his girl, go take it.

A: No, it's a, it's definitely a really cool compendium of all of these different sort of like reference points and influences that obviously like meant a lot to him. And to the point that Questlove was making, yeah, it's, it's a really kind of tragic in so many ways that his life was cut off when it was because clearly like, a lot of the material on this thing was so much more out there than some of the beats or sort of more traditional beat placements he had gotten on past records. And during certain highlights in his career, like he was really starting to push things forward in a radical way.

And to think of what could have come afterwards, if he had the opportunity to do, 10 more tapes like these and kind of progress things forward.

J: If I'm listening to any hip hop instrumentals, if I turn on a three hour Jay Dilla instrumental mix on YouTube. It's fine.

It's cool while I'm listening on. It's like very well produced, probably better mixed than some of the instrumentals we hear on this album, but it doesn't nearly hold as much emotional weight as those 31 tracks do. I think it's just produced in such a unique way, I mean, given the constraints, but you know. What he was feeling throughout this process, like he knew his time was coming close. He wanted to arrange way, arrange some things in a style where people knew that his time was about to close.

And I think the heart of it, the production and the background of how he produced this album. I think that just lends like so much more emotional weight to the entire run of tracks.

Anthony: Okay. Next we have Amanda who has chosen Justin Timberlake's FutureSex/LoveSounds.

Why did you decide to talk about this album for the list?

Amanda: Well, I'm Brazilian, I grew up in Brazil. We have, of course, a lot of, influence from American pop music, but I think only the biggest of the biggest really got here at that time, and I remember really watching, "Sexy Back" on MTV and it was like, I think it was a moment.

I think it's really like, what I would define as pop perfection because like, it's so well-produced. It's so well-written. The choruses are so good. And of course they were big, the tracks were a big hit. So I just felt like really drawn to this.

Anthony: Considering this is like a little bit of a retrospective thing and your familiarity with the album for years at this point, how do you feel like the album has aged over this span of time? How does it sound to you today? And are there elements of it that you still hear on a lot of new pop records?

Amanda: I think it's funny. Cause like, I remember listening to this record when I was, I mean, I knew the hits when I was very young and then listening when I was a little older to the full album. And I just listened to it the other day and I thought it was really mechanic, like really robotic, but like in an interesting way, I think it's like, sort of has to do with, Timbaland's and Timberlake's and 50 Cent's track "Ayo Technology," which is a very sexual track but with technological themes. And I think that's how FutureSex/Love Sounds sounds to me, like it sounds very mechanic and the beats are very repetitive, but it's also kind of like futuristic, especially if you think of 2006, like what we thought of as the future in 2006.

What I like about it, I think is like today, I feel like a lot of pop stars are hung up on having like a concept record and every track has to be connected in some way. And I feel like this record really shows that you can just have like 12 hits and it's fine.

Anthony: It can be simple.

Amanda: Yeah, exactly! Like just like Beyonce's B-Day, which I think is from 2006. Also like it, it's, it's like 12 hits, 12 great tracks. And that's fine.

You don't need to do a whole thing if that's not your MO.

Anthony: When kind of the pop meta was dictated more by like what you said, like the point of exposure was like the music video or the radio, like people really had to focus on those single moments and like how the whole album worked together wasn't maybe so much of a focus. And while obviously like sting singles still reign supreme in the streaming age, there are those opportunities for people to, without having to pay for the album experience, the whole thing in full. And I think that's why there's been a little bit of a shift, but considering that Justin in recent years has put out records that haven't quite been reviewed as positively, do you feel like that has impacted whether or not people are kind of going back to this record?

One thing I've noticed that's changed over the years is like whether or not an artist is doing well today will depend upon whether people are, are, are ready or willing to kind of go back into their old records and be sort of charitable to some of those older releases.

Amanda: I feel like his image has been a little bit like negative in recent years with all the Britney stuff.

Anthony: Right. Right.

Amanda: And so I don't think he's seen in a great light. And also he's not releasing good music. So it's difficult to sympathize.

Anthony: And Timbaland has hit some hard times too, with his, love of AI recently as well.

Amanda: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Also, but like, what. to say about the, the, the, like I said, it's not a concept is like 12 tracks or something, but I do feel like the tracks flow really well into each other. Like the album's flow is really good. And I think they thought about it like, purposefully. So I, yeah, I think it's, it continues to be a great listen, despite of what Justin Timberlake does today. He's still the man that gave us what, what goes around comes around. So.

Anthony: No, I mean, hopefully it can, undergo a bit of a reevaluation considering all the Y2K vibes are back. I feel like Justin's almost missed, missed that train in a way, but maybe it's something he can plug back into on his next record.

Amanda: Totally. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like he's in his folk era and I don't think there's coming back from that, but we can hope.

Anthony: Next, we are talking to Aaron who chose Hell Hath No Fury, a personal favorite of mine for the piece. And you got it right there. Oh my God.

Aaron: Yeah.

Anthony: What made you choose this, record for the piece, Aaron?

Aaron: This is just one of the best rap records of the 2000s. I mean, plain and simple. I mean, Neptunes' production on this record is just so insane. Pharrell is kind of fucking snapping on so many of these beats and everything, like the beat on "Mr. Me Too," it's just like, so acidic and so creepy.

Another thing about this album that I love is how creepy it kind of sounds occasionally, like "Ride Around Shining" is another example where, that's just like pure, like, it's a quote Pusha on "Keys Open Doors." It makes my skin crawl a little bit. It's just like the production is so amazing.

Like Pusha and Malice are like, they're just so locked in. They have such great chemistry and they've got some really good bars, some really slick rhymes and all of these songs are just pure, unadulterated bangers to me.

Anthony: I mean, it's pound for pound so consistent, so incredible. And I've sung the praises of this album so many times, but as like a younger listener who sort of like, didn't grow up in the same context that I did, hearing the record, it's sort of one thing, my perspective is that like, this is really such an underdog album because at the time in comparison, there were so many other acts in hip hop that comparatively were so much bigger and selling much wider and doing so much better commercially.

But this album is like really withstood the test of time, despite the fact that not only, that there were numerous classics coming out of that time period for it to contend with, but Clipse came to a very odd and sort of like unceremonious, close and hiatus for a while as well. And even before this new record that came out, that's been widely celebrated, this album was already like in the midst of having like a bit of a comeback streak and people sort of like, re evaluating its relevancy and its significance because at least from my perspective, it's sound is so unique.

I mean, even before Let God Sort Them Out, having come around to what do you sort of attribute this album, having seen a resurgence among younger listeners who might've not grown up with it.

Aaron: Yeah, definitely. I mean, Let God Sort Them Out surely introduced a lot of young people like myself to how good Clipse was essentially. And I mean, some of their more popular songs off of, like Lord Willin', like grind in Virginia and everything, those classics are standing the test of time and obviously, I don't really think it's a secret that like Hell Hath No Fury is probably considered like their magnum opus.

So I think when they dropped, Let God Sort Them Out and they had Tyler feature and everything... I feel like that, like, inspired, a lot of people my age to go and sort of dig into their discography and check this one out.

And I mean, it's just such a great album. And this is just one of those bucket lists, rap albums that you just kind of have to listen to before you die at some point.

Anthony: It's also got to have something to do with like Pharrell having been so prominent and stayed so relevant over the years as well, because oftentimes people are stumbling across his work wondering, because he's not necessarily the guy who's on the front lines all the time on every track that he has something to do with. People wonder like, "Why is he as big as he is? Why is he as relevant as he is? Well, he's a producer. Well, what's his best work?" And when people ask that it always goes back to The Neptunes and it always goes back to this album.

I mean, as far as Pharrell and as far as The Neptunes go, this is them at their peak, which is also why it's kind of hard to imagine Clipse operating with anybody else's unit. He's kind of like the secret or not secret, but he's sort of like the unofficial third member at this point.

Aaron: Exactly. Yeah, that's what I've always thought. And I just think that so much of his production around this album is just like, it is so fresh. I mean, granted, this album is obviously coming out in an era where bling era rap was kind of the thing. I don't know, like shades and undertones of all the type of stuff that was kind of coming out in this era.

But even today, it like still feels so fresh, like the beats are just so popping and Malice and Pusha are just so locked into it. And every beat The Neptunes sort of come up with is so much different from like the last. And it's just like the album just keeps going. It is just such a nonstop. It has such a nonstop, like frantic, momentum to it.

And yeah, it's just such a great track list and has such a great flow to it.

Anthony: Yeah, I mean, there's like definitely a lot of parallels to many records that came out around that time in terms of the hooks and the braggadocia. But simultaneously, like, nobody else has beats like that, around that time period, like you said, so sinister, but simultaneously, a lot of the sounds that they're built out of be it either weird mouth clicks or like, melodica or some of the weird drum sound effects like those are just odd found sounds and clips and pieces of, percussion that nobody else is putting into their tracks and just Pusha T and Malice have a unique chemistry that you just don't get with any other duo during that time.

Aaron: Yeah, no, I totally agree. Just looking at the track list and everything, I know you're a "Dirty Money," like you famously like that song and thought it was probably like top three, I could probably assume on the whole thing. I think "Trill" is another really interesting song in the album, like the production of that is dark, like I'm going to die club vibes or something.

It's like you stumble into a club and you have no idea what the hell is going on. And your heart is beating 1000 beats per minute, and this is kind of going on in the background and kind of like, it's like so spinny. And it's just like, so much of the production is just is so interesting, especially for this era. And I mean, obviously, with other records that came around this time, like what Kanye was doing on Late Registration and Graduation, I mean, he was kind of doing his own type of like, blend of electronic, pop rap, type of a thing.

But I mean, that's kind of in the same breath, what kind of The Neptunes are doing on here with all these different synthesizers and how it kind of like, just sort of, like I said, it's just kind of a sinister type of atmosphere that they're creating on here.

Anthony: Well, I appreciate you coming on and talking about the record and contributing to the piece.

Aaron: Of course. Thank you so much for having me.

Anthony: All right, next, we have Daniel coming on to talk about The Black Parade, a massive record that you decided to talk about for this piece. Why did you pick that one? I

Daniel: I picked that one because I was, I was around.

A: You were a young boy.

D: Yeah, I was going to say that. Yeah, I was around four years old. So yeah.

A: Sorry. I had to. I apologize.

D: Yeah, it's okay. It's okay.

I didn't live through that time, but I still found a way to connect with that record. And I also went to the Long Live The Black Parade concert tour they're doing now because of the 20th anniversary of The Black Parade. Yeah, so I could perfectly see how new generations came to enjoy the album. So I thought it made sense to talk about the album.

A: The context that I have for the record, and obviously it is a great record. It is a classic record, but it's funny upon its release, and this is sort of washed out with the sands of time, but there have been a lot of people who have come to a appreciate the album more than they did when it originally came out, because at the time there was so much, division and baggage that kind of came along with, being classified as, an emo band, depending on sort of what subset of alternative culture you were involved in. And I, I love that not only people my age, but people your age have been able to approach the record without any of that noise and just sort of appreciate it for what it is.

As somebody who obviously appreciates the record do you see it as like an emo classic or do you primarily see it as like, this is a pop punk album or this is like a rock opera or it's like, how, how do those sort of sounds and influences mix for you?

D: It's definitely tricky because of the emo label. There's always discussion like the, is it My Chemical Romance emo? No, because they're really commercial, but I'd say it's probably their least emo.

I think three, two years. It's definitely a much more definite label for that. But I'd still say that due to the sounds being more classical, like they're more inspired in other bands like David Bowie and Pink Floyd and Queen and so on.

I think it makes it sound not as much as the post hardcore or other bands that were playing during that time. But I mean, it's still kind of sides with it because it's pop punk and other influences has in the genre, but I don't know. I, I wouldn't say it's their most emo, but it's still obviously the emo label at the end of the day.

A: And and for you as a music fan, how do you feel like this album fares against like the greater canon of like concept albums, story albums, for you is like, is it really kind of like the songwriting, is it the production, or is it the story that for you is like the main selling point for this record? And does it measure up to other kind of linear concept records that people perceive as classics?

D: It measures more for me, due to the songwriting and the overall concept. Cause like the art way is good at making ideas and concepts for songs that kind of work itself into a storyline. But I don't think entirely as one progressive story is the best because you have songs like "Teenagers," which is a pretty cool song, but it's, it's just a side theme that's not really, doesn't really correlate with the overall storyline of the album.

Also, if you go back to others, like Three Cheers (for Sweet Revenge) and (I Brought You My) Bullets, (And You Brought Me My Love,) they're not that concept heavy. They're like, Gerard tries to tries to make meaning after he makes the song and writes what he's trying to convey. So I wouldn't say it's more the overall story and what the lyrics try to say. And obviously the great songwriting and catchy and very, very great one. But yeah, it's not exactly how it's all. Because for example, Pink Floyd's The Wall is a much more concise and better rhythm if you would say, a concept album.

But still, even if it's not as concise as those other rock operas, The Black Parade still manages to convey the emotions and the feeling of alienation and not feeling great in your own body. So I wouldn't say it's the best in that but it's conveying the themes in a well enough manner.

A: And speaking of, My Chemical Romance baggage that I think, weighs heavier for millennials than it does like the next generation. What are your personal feelings on Danger Days? Because I know for a lot of people who sort of like, grew up with My Chemical Romance as they were coming out, like the transition from this record to their next was just so surprising and so hard that a lot of people didn't move over to that record.

And I'll say myself, like there are elements of that album that in comparison are maybe not as epic or as artful, but I still think in a lot of respects, like Danger Days is a kind of fun album. If, if you kind of take it from the idea or the standpoint of like, they're kind of playing and toying on some of these tracks with the idea of like, Oh, we're doing like, what would be kind of a radio rock arena type band. But this is like our own kind of like playful take on that sound.

D: I'd say I'm more in the middle ground. Like I know people younger than me really like that album. But I'm like more in the middle that I'm more like 50 years and The Black Parade and everything. But I also respect that album.

When I first listened to it, it was like, I thought it was too poppy. And I didn't really like the production. But seeing some of those songs live, like, I think it bring brought them to life in some way. And I kind of like it more. But yeah, I wouldn't say I understand for the band why they did it. They needed to go find and like differentiate themselves from the black parade and everything they've done before because it was a great hype. It makes sense why they didn't want to continue making music after that.

It feels like a good album, but I don't know, it has many different production ideas that I don't really understand. And yeah, and while I understand and like the concept, it's just, I don't know, I think it doesn't really go with what I really love. But yeah, I would be in the middle.

A: And speaking of MCR having not made music in a while, do you feel like at this point, which I mean, they have obviously teased the idea of that in at recent points. Do you feel like they have another Black Parade in them, even if they did come out with a new record or if there is sort of like a new and upcoming band, obviously inspired by them that might have one in them instead?

D: I don't know if a Black Parade because they, especially Gerard really likes to make something completely new each time. Like he doesn't really want to. So I think it probably be a very divisive album, like the single they released "The Foundations of Decay" was, there was a big discourse around it. But I don't know if they would make something as grand as that because they like really feel comfortable themselves now since since they broke up.

They're playing B-sides and rarities and demos in the in their concerts. So I don't think they would aim for a big concept album. I think it'd be something with a concept because they tried to make an album that didn't have a concept with Conventional Weapons with the B-sides that they released.

And like they wasn't satisfied with that. So I know it would be 100% a concept album. At least I hope so. But I don't think it'd be as grand as that. I don't think they're aiming for, for another big thing.

And I, and I don't even know if they, if they would end up doing it because they're suddenly their engineer, which is they work in the latest single, "The Foundations of Decay" passed away like a few months after making that single. So I don't even know if they're going to be making the same thing as, well, whatever the way we're recording at that time, or if they're going to do something completely new from scratch, I'm not sure about whatever it is, I hope it's great. Right.

A: Fair. Well, again, thank you for coming on and and writing about the record.

Anthony: All right. And finally coming through in the mix, we have the one and only Victoria, lovely to have you back on the channel. You decided to talk about the Arctic Monkeys debut, which I remember as kind of an explosive moment when the singles off of that record started to pop off in the mid-2000s. And I know you're very much a Brit pop girl. How has this album aged for you over the past 20 years? And outside of that, Brit bias that you have, what drove you to talk about this album?

Victoria: Great question. I guess I'll address the Brit bias.

Speaking generally because Arctic Monkeys very much existed and popped up in kind of the wave of rock revival that was initially in New York and the US, but a lot of it exploded over in the UK and produced in UK and Scotland bands in particular, Franz Ferdinand is one of them, that kind of became titans in that era.

And then Arctic Monkeys came up very close to that because even though their debut was 2006, they had been performing for years. They were a childhood band between Alex Turner and Matt Helders, and then there were the other members as well. And they were a teenage band in Sheffield. And were also in The Mythology, the first internet band, they exploded over the internet. We really don't have to go over that because that's just a part of their Wikipedia page.

And they were kind of the first bands to utilize the streaming era and Myspace and blogs and connecting with fans on a personal level through the internet and bypassing these traditional record kind of album rollouts and cycles. And they were able to cultivate a very strong fan base before they even got signed. And then after that, it's just one of those really, I would say a band that makes you happy rooting for them.

From the beginning and to this day, they've always touted their independence. They're assigned to an independent label Domino, which has become extremely powerful. But it's still an independent record label. They have never switched.

Even though they credit a lot of their early success to just winning the internet, I do believe that a lot of it has to do with their work ethic in terms of constantly booking gigs, sometimes doing gigs for little to no money, traveling to different parts of England because again, they were in Sheffield and they would go to different places around the country, and really just doing traditional, boots on the ground, grassroots, events for their shows.

And yeah, and in terms of sound, it's just one of, for me personally, it is one of the most comforting sounds, growing up, always listening to Arctic Monkeys. They are a band that, for me, are some of my earliest memories. And it's just kind of a second brain wave to me at this point. And definitely part of my formation in my enthusiasm for the Brits and the rock music that they've got going on. And yeah, it's explosive, it's brash, it's very smart at the same time, lyrically, and it still sounds amazing to this day.

And I'm sure we'll go into it, but a lot of people are trying to copy it. And there's a reason why everyone is trying to copy it is just because all four members just go so crazy in...

A: Yeah, they go so hard.

V: Yeah, and especially on this one, which is their garagiest and punkiest one. And even when they go pop, it's still, really good.

And in all kind of phases of the band, they've delivered, I'd say, the best quality of whatever genre or style or influence they were trying to do. And they've always been very individual and very strong about their point of view throughout, which, again, makes it a great independent band you'd want to root for.

A: Yeah, I mean, you know that over the years through... My reviews that I've not proven to be, the biggest Arctic Monkeys guy or anything like that, but this album is pretty, damn unimpeachable?

Yeah. As far as a British record, as far as a record that does have those punk and garage leanings, to what do you say about, the singularity of this record in the Arctic Monkeys catalog? Because no other album in their catalog sounds like this album. Immediately they started developing and started maturing. And even in recent years, there hasn't even been a tug or a slight hint that they would even consider being like, "Yeah, you know what? That old sound was pretty sick. We need to go back to that."

They have completely moved on to not even another part of, if, if there was geographically a country or a plot of land where they would be, their, their last two records are often another galaxy, in comparison with what they were doing on their debut. I mean, is, is there sort of a, something about that rapid change from album to album that they have that sort of keeps you excited as a fan, or does it make you even a little sad that they couldn't have stayed with the sound a little bit longer?

V: I mean, I've never been a person that like forced a band to stay the same forever. I think my relationship with music in general relies on album to album and I like it when artists change.

When it comes to whatever people say I am, that's not what I'm not. I think we also have to constantly be reminded that these songs existed for years before they were put into an album. The story of it is that it was just produced from demos that they've already been exchanging online for years. And then they just had a bigger Domino budget and were able to just put it in a compilation.

And reading reviews at the time, like for my research for the piece, I read the original NME interview from Tim Jones, where he was just like the only downside of this album is that everyone's already heard it before and we all know it's great. Because everyone has been to concerts, everyone's seen them online and stuff like that.

I think that really affects the kind of writing and the subject matter and the interest and as well as like the teenage gall that they had with this record because it's in like the time that it was released in the reviews that were published about it was very very much like, this is a concept album about nightlife in Sheffield and the suburbs. And I think it's kind of aged in a different way. It's the vocabulary of a very smart teenager, but a teenager nonetheless.

And there are like the charming regionalisms, but that is just because it's the world that existed to Turner and co at the time. I think their evolution of sound really represents their ability to grow as a band and also to have new experiences. Favorite Worst Nightmare, which is an impeccable follow up. Crazy to release indie rock all timer after indie rock all timer and then release a second album that has indie rock all timer after indie rock all timer.

And I think with that one, they went a bit darker, they went a bit moodier. They were able to have more research resources and get into synths, that they didn't have at their disposal for their first one. So yeah, I don't know. I think from then to now, it's always exciting to see what they're going to do.

Even in their most recent single that they released for Help 2, it's very much in that world of the car of the ethereal spacey lounge pop rock, but it's still the same impeccable lyricist. It's still the same edgy guitar. Still the same rapid pace drummer. Just kind of using tools in different ways, that keeps them stimulated and keeps the real fans, in the concert ticket line.

A: And how do you feel like, because this is one of the few albums in the list for the piece that I think you could say very clearly has like the most sort of like obvious progeny in terms of like this new crop of bands.

I feel like in a way, this record and the sounds and the vibes that it evokes for a lot of new bands on the English scene. And even to an extent, the American scene, like copying this record or borrowing from it almost becomes like a calling card for like, Hey, we want to communicate to the world that we're a young hit band with a lot of energy and a lot of spunk. Like what better sound and vibe to bring back than this?

Especially since it's now reached like classic status. How do you feel like a lot of the people who are directly borrowing from this record? A lot of the artists who are directly borrowing from this record are kind of fairing in comparison? Do you feel like they're doing this album in this Arctic Monkeys era justice in their worship of this record?

V: I mean, it would really have to depend on the band. And I guess to be the pretentious critic in the room, I think it would have to do with the knowing the intention of the original album.

I think a lot of kids now who are copying it, they see, for example, "I Bet You Look Good on the Dancefloor," and they hear that really like frenetic drum drum beat and the baseline and they hear all that noise and they get revved up and they're like, this is what cool people sounds like. And to an extent, yes, like when I published this review, I was very touched by so many people who reached out and said, I remember when this came out, a new type of person emerged from this album. And at the same time, they're just like really skinny 19 year olds with like visible acne. It's like so charming.

But like they were the coolest people. Like I, one of my earliest memories was watching, it was a couple of years after, but like watching the rerun of their SNL performance, their only SNL performance, where they just made fun of a person in the crowd and they were so cool. But obviously wearing like, like ill fitting clothes and looking a little bored.

And that kind of like spunk to them. I understand the pull because they were such regular people. They didn't have to do costumes. They didn't have to have a certain look about them to reach this kind of amazing status. But I feel like a lot of bands now to get back to that early point. They kind of...some of them admittedly are from London. And they are, people who don't understand as well, the kind of grit that came from the band specifically in terms of lyrics when it came to their relationship to access.

I think when looking at the lyrics and revisiting it this time, a lot of what this album was speaking about was forcing their own way through the music industry. A music industry, that is south of them, that is in another economic bracket that is just like, they had to basically force it to be accessible.

And I think that a lot of the people now that are using their language and their music as a cheat code have the access to the industry in ways that they didn't. And I don't know, this might be an argument that's pulling at straws because I can't generalize every band, a lot of bands that are trying to sound like them are also from the north. And I also-

A: I mean, you, I, I think you're calling it correctly in terms of like, the Arctic Monkeys during that time period, they jumped through this random portal that was the internet that every established artist at the time, well most established artists at the time, they were adopters for sure who were more forward thinking, and established at the time.

But they were one of the young bands who sort of saw this as an opportunity to like, this is our potential in to reach the people who we want to reach. And now that's just the norm. Now those channels are all sort of like paved over and established and sort of like, segmented and controlled by the industry itself in a myriad of different ways.

So there's not like that kind of random surprise up and comer sort of name like they were at the time.

V: Yeah. And also like a lot of the internet is bought by record industries and at this point.

A: Yeah.

V: The third party people who do bots and clip farms and stuff like that. And just kind of the machine of look at this person and what they're doing. And it's like, oh, that's David Beckham's kid. To put someone immediately direct in someone that I think is copying Arctic Monkeys sound.

But it is just kind of yeah, it is just kind of I would say the only person in recent years that was able to do an Arctic Monkeys level of like jumping, like through the portal to become super famous is Chappel Roan. I think because she was the one who made herself famous on TikTok and she had this grassroots approach. She would go to festivals all the time with like very little people.

And suddenly her fan base was growing and she had a very distinct point of view. And she also was successfully able to use the internet, even as she was dropped from labels and then put on new ones to be able to grow her fan base. And she's someone that people also root for, and hasn't really lost her vision in the way of becoming more famous.

A: Apt observation. And I appreciate you coming on to talk about the album. Thank you.

V: Sorry it got contentious.

A: You didn't get contentious.

And there you have it.

Thank you very much to all of the contributing writers over on theneedledrop.com for taking part in this video. And thank you guys for going over and reading the piece and supporting their work. Let me know what you think about all of these albums in the comments or what your favorite record turning 20 years old this year is.

And I will see you guys in the next one. And yeah, Anthony Fantano, 20 year old albums forever.