Hey, everyone. Anthony Fantano here, Internet's busiest music nerd, and everyone's talking about nepo babies again.

Yes, the nepo baby conversation is back, mostly because of 2hollis, rapper, singer, songwriter, producer, and one of the most viral music sensations to bubble up out of the underground over the last few years. But as his popularity has grown, more and more fans have been drawn to his backstory, with some calling into question the legitimacy of his success and come up due to the fact that he has parents that are very successful and well-connected in the music industry. His mother being a super talented publicist who's worked with greats such as Daft Punk, and the list goes on.

And then there is 2hollis' father, drummer and one of the founding members of the legendary post-rock outfit, Tortoise. Now, this info was enough to get some people talking, obviously, but the conversation around 2hollis' rise to has grown even larger in the wake of this new New York Times popcast episode, where 2hollis came on to discuss not just this topic, but many others with his dad, John Herndon. John is literally sitting right next to hollis as they move through topics relating to the internet and fame, and also hollis's journey as a musician, too.

It's interesting not only because he describes music as not even really being a priority for him for years, but then as he progressively got a little more into it, his focus on making music and producing and writing got so much more intense around the COVID pandemic, citing the fact that he had pretty much nothing else to do. I think that says so much about his sound and his style, because I've long seen 2hollis' music as being an amalgamation of so many different trending sounds and styles on the internet.

So around that time, you did have a lot of strange niche electronic music styles bubbling up at the time. Hyperpop, Rage. So again, him making waves around that time, specifically when he was focusing on making music the most and probably consuming a lot of what was happening at the time, too, on the internet, musically. Again, it just makes way too much sense.

But with that being said, eventually in this discussion, we do get to the nepo baby topic, which, I'll be honest, is introduced almost as if it was planned. We're going into this knowing we are going to address this topic. I don't see why else you would have your dad there.

I mean, respect to John. I like Tortoise, and I love the fact that his musical talent and abilities have been passed down a generation, obviously. But personally, I just find this to be such an odd way to address this. And while in one breath, I feel like the whole nepo connection thing was embraced...

"I know my truth, which is, yes, I am very fortunate and blessed to be born into a house where I was showing incredible music at an early age. I was introduced to artists all my life. I was going to shows. Yes, I was meeting influential artists early on." - 2hollis

In another, I feel like Hollis was much more aggressively putting forward the idea that, yeah, all of this was me, and this is my mission and my vision and so on and so forth.

"However, I, my own career, 2hollis, drippysoup, whatever, from the fucking beginning to the end, it was my mission. And yes, it was helped by you getting me into things and showing me influences and whatever. But I was always so focused on, I want to do this my way. And it's actually funny. When I was younger, early days, I blocked my mom on Instagram. I was like, 'Do not show my music to anyone.' And she'd be like, Can I please show it to whatever her friend that works at whatever?' I'd be like, 'No, I want to do this myself.' My mom has never worked me. She's never pushed me. I've never been represented by her. No one's ever put me anywhere. Everything I have, it's been me." - 2hollis

For sure. No doubt it is. I don't believe that 2ollis's career is where it is simply because a music exec decided it would be so. Nobody's holding this guy at gunpoint, making him make this music and have this career. I feel like the discussion wasn't really acknowledging fully the privilege of 2hollis's upbringing regarding his opting for a career in music, number one.

There also wasn't an attempt to truly dive into why the nepo baby issue is an issue in the first place for a lot of music fans. First off, we need to accept that sure, while 2hollis' father isn't basically forcing him into this career, forcing him to be a success, the little legs up that he was getting along the way and the encouragement he was receiving as somebody who was just dabbling in music as an adolescent, as a teenager, that's also everything. Especially when you're coming from this background of performers and seeing performances on such a regular basis.

Also, let's just talk about how much of a difference it probably makes in any kid's life to pitch to their parents the idea that, "Hey, I think I might want to become a musician, a performer," and not have your parents laugh in your face as a response, or not have them completely poo-poo the idea, and maybe have you kick the can down the road and encourage you instead to go to college, which, yeah, for sure, is the more sensible choice there.

Look, all I'm saying is that these little things, even something as simple as your dad getting you Ableton as a present, can make a really big difference, can be a really big deal in terms of getting the ball rolling on somebody taking music seriously. That's not the only thing in this conversation as 2hollis and his father go over his childhood and his trajectory that just seems so foundational and so significant. Then it's written off in a way as he describes what he does currently as just completely his and his mission and so on and so forth.

"I mean, hollis figured out how to get stuff up on SoundCloud, how to get stuff on the streaming services, how to edit his own movies, how to do everything himself. People saw it and liked it and loved it. Ken Carson saw it and was like, "Come on tour with me." That was all because of what hollis had done for himself. It had nothing to do with his mom or me." - John Herndon

Again, this whole thing just feels like different groups of people and perspectives talking past each other. Because while I do think 2hollis does downplay a little bit the significance that his parents played in his success, simultaneously, I don't personally buy into the conspiratorial mindset that 2hollis' popularity is being forced upon us, and the only reason he is famous is because of his parents. Because look, this may not be something that you know, but I'm getting handed records and songs and projects and mixtapes and demos from types of people all the time.

Lots of people are trying to make it in the music industry, frankly, some of whom do have parents who are actually very successful or even very rich. I've seen some people in some bands, even with all of the money and all of the opportunities in the world, still end up failing and wallowing in obscurity because they just couldn't hack it or their music, their art, the way they pitched it to the world, just didn't resonate.

If people didn't love hollis's music, it wouldn't It doesn't matter if me or his mom put him up there or got him whatever. It wouldn't matter. There's no amount of equipment you could buy him that was going to make him. It is what it is. Having successful or famous parents doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to make it in the music industry. However, it can give you a massive leg up and access to resources your average person doesn't necessarily get.

And that's the real reason why I think the nepo baby conversation continues to resonate and grab people's attention. Because, yeah, there are a lot of fans that while they do enjoy music and they consume it, they don't really know how the industry works. So as a result, it's just easy to fill in those information gaps with just, "Oh, this person knows this person, so that's why they're successful," when in reality, it's actually more the resources and the access to tools and information, the exposure to this world that actually ends up helping people a lot more in the long run. This is the thing your average person doesn't usually get so close to unless they have the money to get close to it or unless they're born into it by virtue of having family members who are in the industry.

Which is why, one, I feel like a lot of this conversation should be centered more around how do we create a world and an economy and a music industry where your average person has more resources, more money, more free time to be able to pursue things like the arts if they so choose use because it shouldn't simply be something only the wealthy have access to.

But also, the second part of this, with 2hollis, specifically, it's hard to be mad because I'm just seeing him be successful at something that his relatives before him have proven to be successful at. Maybe it's a distinction without a difference, but I take less offense at a musician with successful musician parents than I do a musician with, I don't know, successful Raytheon executive parents.

And it seems like 2hollis' success comes more from the fact that he had this exposure and this access and these resources. I'm not here arguing that he shouldn't have had those things. I feel like a wider swath of people should have access to those things and should get them by virtue of not simply being related to other people who had them before him. That's really all I'm saying.

It's less being upset about what 2hollis has, which I don't think anybody should be. Because we should be more upset about the idea of why do you need to be born into this very specific context and situation in order to get this? That shouldn't be the case, especially for something as amazing as the arts. It's art, it's creativity, it's communication.

We should all be able to do it if we so choose. But not in a super stupid, lazy AI way. Not like that. In fact, part of the pitch of AI is that it's so difficult to get the time and resources necessary to become a great musician. Why not just a few corners and have AI generate it for you? But yeah, at the end of the day, like I've said before on this issue, I feel like the focus should not be on being angry at 2hollis because it's a lot more constructive to attack this from the standpoint that this is just a symptom of a larger issue.

But there you go. Those are my thoughts. What are yours? Let me know down in the comments. I'm sure you will.

Anthony Fantano, 2hollis, nepo babies, forever.