Hey, everyone. Anthony Fantano here, the Internet's busiest music nerd. You know who it is. And unless you've been sleeping under a rock for the past few months, you know that I've been hosting a new call-in talk show on NTS called Call Me Maybe. You can listen to past episodes of the show via the link down below. And what can I say? It's been a ride.
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In this month's episode, we specifically to touch down on obscure artists. We're actually about to watch the best clips from that episode right here, right now. So let's do it.
Anthony: Hello? I'm here. Is this Red Hood?
Caller: Yeah, it's me.
Anthony: What is your business calling today, Red Hood? What is going on?
Caller: Well, I actually want to talk about today's topic now, obscure artists.
Anthony: Okay. Yeah. What's an obscure artist or two that you feel like I and everybody should be listening to that we need to be aware of.
Caller: You are familiar with him, actually. It's YMS, his music persona, an Unkindness. His album, 10 Years, actually, it was solid. I know that you don't have time to review your YouTuber friends' work. I know that you have a code for that, and I respect that. But I think everyone should check out YMS's album 10 Years because it's from beginning to finish, it's a masterpiece. I'm not kidding. All the arrangements, the vocals, the background instruments, I think you already heard it with the horns then that piano work. I mean, that just piano work. I mean, especially the last song, Acceptance, It's just at the end of this song, I just stare to the wall for straight 10 minutes.
Anthony: Who our friend here, Red Hood, is referring to as YMS or Your Movie Sucks, or Adam, who is a fellow YouTuber and actually a very talented and accomplished songwriter. Somebody who's actually had a song of theirs that they've written up here on a Blondie album. But I wanted to also ask this in light of this question. In your opinion, what do you feel even qualifies as obscure music anymore? Because I remember back in the day when I was coming up pre-Internet, getting into music, music that was legitimately obscure, you actually had to put in quite a bit of effort and legwork in order to get a grasp of it, get your hands on it, even find out that it existed. And these days, everything is just at the click of a button and just at your fingertips, and you're not having to necessarily do the digging that you might have at one time in order to find out about something that's truly obscure. So I mean, as a music fan yourself, that is obviously listening to some artist that might not be as popular as others, what do you even feel like qualifies as obscure music for you right now?
Caller: I mean, if you asked me that question back in high school, I would give you that stereotypical answer that one of those Swedish black metal bands that only has 99 followers type of answer. But as time passes, when I think of some obscure artist, it's me who hasn't discovered yet, but actually, others are pretty much aware of that artist. So like you said, it's actually very easy to reach now.
Caller: Can you hear me?
Anthony: Daniel, I can hear you. You want to talk about Latincore?
Caller: Yeah, I want to talk about Latincore. Are you familiar with the thing?
Anthony: I'm really not. I mean, the name is making me want to take a few different guesses. This could either be metalcore music from Latin America, or it could be an electronic style of music that maybe embraces-
Caller: Ding, ding, ding. There you go. Are we talking about some high BPMs here as well? Are the BPMs going crazy?
Anthony: It is varied. I wouldn't say that it's all crazy BPMs. I was actually thinking about this question and about this genre, like Latincore, which is the label, like global north media outlets like, I don't know, Bandcamp and Resident Advisor, and all of those, I don't know, gatekeepers from some electronic music culture are calling in this genre. And this genre is hugely based off of musical imprints of classic Latin American music. So it's really weird because at the same time, it's like, breaks, like grime, UK bass, but I don't know, like indigenous, like traditional beat patterns and such. I'm not sure if you're quite familiarized with.
Anthony: No, you're educating me right now. I have a lot of questions. The breaks, when we're talking breaks, are we talking like classic electronic music and dance music breaks? Are we talking the amen break or something like that? Or are you pulling breaks from traditional Latin music and then making different drum breaks out of that that are going into a different style of electronic music?
Caller: It is classical, historically anglophone breaks, like jungles, drum and bass, but mixed with reggaeton. Like jungleton, it's called jungleton. I don't know, it's like that meme where there's two dudes and one has this parentheses with a whole bunch of genres, and the other one says like, "virgin music". It goes into that route. Actually, a month ago, one of the labels, which whom I work with, were able to publish a supportive radio mix on NTS.
Anthony: Okay. What's the name of the label?
Caller: It's called Muerte a la Miseria in Spanish, which translates on to "death to the misery". Okay. And also I will I mention CTM, C has in cat, T has in Tom, M as in Mary, Cumbia Tu Mente, another great label from this country, which has added a bunch of people from China and stuff, I don't know, from France. It's a huge community because I think it's pretty internet-based, but it has gotten to a point where, I don't know, as I just told you, there are reviews from Resident Advisor talking about the new wave of up and coming Latin American music. For example, this whole that this dude, which works with Arca, DJ Baba. Are you familiar with?
Anthony: Yeah, he also had a beat on JPEGMafia's latest LP. A lot of those Brazilian funk records are crazy.
Caller: Yeah. I mean, this dude is from Venezuela, actually.
Anthony: Okay. It's funny that a lot of people are categorizing it that way.
Caller: Yeah. Like mandelão, this whole genre of funk music is also pretty crazy. There's this dude called Koh, K-O-H, which is literally like trying to put a musical output or effort related to magical practices. So all of his thing is pretty dancey, 160 BPM above. But you can hear the Brazilian thing. He's from Joinville, some place in Brazil. It's pretty far away from me also. But well, there is this movement and there is this thing that got me back to the starting point. Most of this music is quite what, I don't Westerners tend to say, quote, unquote, avant-garde, but it's really a rehash of a rehash of a rehash of a vaporwave formula or something like it. But it works. It works because it's also functional to the reality, the the scars reality of places like the one I live with. For example, I live in a place where it luckily is not happening at my household, but we don't have enough running water or electricity. So there are being electrical cut-offs of almost 10 a day. And that's the way we're living and working. And that's the way I'm actually speaking with you at the moment through the Internet. So it's like a good musical contrast and output for things which are usually Western-based and dominant by global North countries, which is like electronic music.
Anthony: Well, conditions like that that you're talking about, how do you feel like that manifests in the music itself?
Caller: Personally, I couldn't care less. I think it's complicated because I think that on the broader spectrum of things, one of the least interesting or important things happening, for example, here in the country where I live at and from where I'm from, it's fucking Latincore, you know what I mean? That's like, quote, unquote, white people shit for seeing it in a way. Those are concerns for people which have the time and availability to think about musical genres. But it does impact the reality because there are people... I have friends which are producers and have been able to tour the US and recently Mexico or stuff like that, mostly because of doing this thing online. It doesn't work for them as much here locally as it does overseas.
Anthony: So you're saying this is a term that's being applied in a marketing kind of way?
Caller: Totally.
Anthony: In order to make it palatable for people who are completely outside of that context and aren't necessarily seeing the nuances between what's going in the Brazilian scene, the Ecuadorian scene, in the Venezuelan scene, and so on and so forth.
Caller: Totally. The thing is that, don't get me wrong, I think that nonetheless, it is fucking sick. It's like an amazing genre. It does a pretty left field approach to what partying means. You go to a party of this music and you hear the classics, the things that you listen when you are six years old, sleeping in two chairs, listening to cumbia until 4:00 AM with your drunk parents, the classic third-world country stuff.
Anthony: Thank you for calling in because you've just hit us with a lot of information and recommendations here. I appreciate you giving us a microscope and drilling down a bit more and giving us some of those details and some of the differences in this umbrella term that may be catching on right now.
Sean: Holy shit. That was incredible.
Anthony: Yeah, he really gave us a rundown.
Anthony: It's Call Me Maybe. It's Anthony Fantano. It's the live NTS call-in show. We're chopping it up about all things music. We were just talking about Latincore. Sean, do we have another caller lined up?
Sean: Yeah, we've got Daniella here from LA.
Anthony: Daniella, are you there?
Caller: Hey, Anthony.
Anthony: Hey, what's going on?
Caller: Good. How are you? I'm a huge fan.
Anthony: I appreciate that. You have an obscure recommendation for me?
Anthony: Yes. Lately, I've been really digging some '60s music, and among the most obscure that I've come across is the Millennium, which I'm not sure if you're familiar with them.
Anthony: The Millennium?
Caller: Yes.
Anthony: I have not heard of this band. They're a '60s band. Their name is The Millennium. How did you find out about this band? What is their origin story?
Caller: Really, I just randomly came across them through the Spotify algorithm. Sometimes they're really good. I just came across the band listening to some Beach Boys and Beatles and stuff. And then suddenly the song comes up in my shuffle, and I'm just blown away about how amazing it is and how, in my opinion, it was just far ahead of its time.
Anthony: And far ahead of its time in what way? You're talking about listening to Beatles and Beach Boys and da, da, da, da. Did it actually feel in line with that era of music, or did it sound like something from the future?
Caller: I mean, absolutely. I would say they're on par or in line with their contemporaries, but I do think that it's iconic enough that it could withstand really the test of time. I think production-wise, it's really, again, on par with Brian Wilson's level of work, really like, lush sounding production. The lyrics are just there as well. I think all around, it's a really great band. They've only been around for a year, according to their Wikipedia page. So it's just one of those one and done type things. Yeah.
Caller: They only had the one album? What is the album?
Anthony: Yeah, Begin, just released, I believe, in '68. It was among some of the greatest work put out at that time in that era. I really recommend "5 A.M.". I think "5 A.M." is stellar. It's really just amazing. I'm surprised it's not really spoken a lot about in terms of I mean, of course, it's a niche band, but I think this has a lot of potential, really. I think it's popular enough to run around in some niche Internet circles, I think.
Anthony: Okay. Well, again, The Millennium, "5 A.M.". Thank you for the recommendation and for coming through with an obscure hit for us.
Caller: Of course. My pleasure.
Anthony: All right. Have a good one.
Caller: Thank you. You, too.
Anthony: We have Jess. Jess is coming through. Jess, are you there?
Caller: Well, Hello. Hi.
Anthony: Hey, how are you doing?
Caller: I'm good. How are you?
Anthony: Good. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. What's going on? What's on your mind?
Caller: Well, we were talking about obscure artists. I want to talk about coworker music.
Anthony: Yes, we can go multiple directions here. Do you have some obscure coworker music?
Caller: I have some obscure coworker music. Well, this is an artist that was recommended to me by a coworker. I was studying over in a different state. I'm from Rochester, New York, and I was missing my hometown dearly. And my coworker recommended me an artist local to Rochester that I had never heard of.
Anthony: Okay.
Caller: Kitchen.
Anthony: Called what?
Caller: Kitchen is the name. Kitchen.
Anthony: Just Kitchen.
Caller: Yes. It's just Kitchen.
Anthony: Where can people find Kitchen? What is the album or what is the track to listen to? What does it sound like?
Caller: Well, it's like bedroom pop, indie folk, that vibe. Not really doing much inventive, I would say. But actually, the reason why I wanted to bring it up, I would personally recommend either the newest album, Breath Too Long, or the previous band that this guy, James Keegan, was in, The Loaners, had an album in the slacker rock, slowcore era that was really good. The reason I want to bring this up, though, is it was specifically resonating for me when I was in LA because it reminded me so much of my hometown. And I wanted to ask you because it got me thinking that I feel like... I mean, you talk about a lot of the time how streaming services like Spotify, how they've had an often negative impact on how we talk about music. And something I've been realizing is that, especially with the decline of radio, we don't get local music specifically recommended to users enough. And I almost feel like I'm out of touch with my local community over in Rochester. And I was wondering your thoughts on that, if that's an issue you also recognize and how you think it would be best to solve that.
Anthony: No, it's most definitely a thing. I think on all levels of the Internet, I feel like a lot of algorithms have condensed things down in a way where it separates you off from what's happening immediately around you. And while I do think that there are positives to that in terms of it, like globalizing or nationalizing certain conversations that I feel like need to be had politically and socially. Also, I feel like it makes people more well aware or can make people more well aware in some instances of, I would say, injustices that are going on in global politics and that thing. Like, To me, personally, as somebody who's currently watching what's going on in the Middle East right now, this is all an extension of a lot of the very terrible destabilizing policies that the West has had toward the Middle East that have been ramping up since the 2000s, and the war on terror, and so on and so forth. A lot of the rhetoric around what's being pushed now is a part of that ongoing push there, in my view, as somebody been paying attention to those politics for all of this time. It seems like there's more conversation around these issues now than there ever has been. But in a way, and I don't know what the solution is, there probably is one, but I feel like the unfortunate downside of that is that there's a lot less emphasis currently on local politics and local art and local connections, where people arguably could potentially have the most impact or the most sway in terms what's immediately going on around them.
Caller: Yeah, I completely agree. I guess instead of bringing this smaller artist and recommending it to everyone, although I would love if everyone checked out Kitchen, I guess I would say I would want everyone listening to maybe check out some of the local music being made in your community because it might really resonate with you as someone who probably also grew up in that community and participated in that community.
Anthony: I think the answer to this, honestly, is people need to go back to a bit of a DIY ethos. The thing is, if people want awareness and want community around the things that are happening immediately around them, people need to start zines. People need to start social media accounts that are dedicated to covering and talking about micro and obscure niche things that are happening immediately around them. And that ultimately will end up creating that awareness and that community, because people will seek that stuff out. Again, in order for there to be community, people have to voluntarily come together. The Internet isn't going to create it for you. You've got to make it for yourself, ultimately. And it's sort of a build it and they will come kind of thing.
Caller: Yeah, I completely agree.
Anthony: All right. Well, thank you for calling up, Jess, and I appreciate your time and your perspective.
Caller: All right. Well, thank you for talking to me. Have a good day.
Anthony: Have a good one.
Anthony: It's a Call Me Maybe, the live music call-in show where I chop it up with you about all things music, whatever it is you guys want to talk about. I believe our next caller is named Brendizl.
Caller: Yes, this is Brendizl Sunshine.
Anthony: I want to make sure that I'm not-
Caller: What's up, Mr. Fantano? Thank you for having me.
Anthony: I want to make sure I'm not talking to an imposter. I want to make sure that I'm talking to the Bren Dizzle.
Caller: There's not a single imposter among us.
Anthony: I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure there's maybe one Bren Dizzle Sunshine, and then four, five, or six other guys who wish they were Bren Dizzle Sunshine. I want to make sure I'm talking to the Bren Dizzle Sunshine.
Caller: On God, this is The Bren Dizzle Sunshine. I'm not sussing you out.
Anthony: Okay, I'll We spend disbelief just because we're live on the radio. What is it that you want to talk about?
Caller: Caller: Well, personally and objectively, we have been taking a lot of big Ws recently with experimental music.
Anthony: Okay.
We got the new Clarence Clarity record.
Anthony: Okay. Yeah, that's fairly experimental as far as pop music goes. Yeah, that's true. What else?
Caller: How about the Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Anthony: I was just listening to that. I mean, for the most part, it does sound like your usual Godspeed fair, but it's still a beautiful record.
Caller: It is gorgeous. And it is a bit... It's a lot of the same for Godspeed, but at the same time, it is a little... It still brings something new, I think. I've only heard it once, so I don't remember.
Anthony: It's done very well. I can't quite remember the title, but the fourth track on there, I believe, is no, it's actually the fifth track, is actually immensely heavy and has some pretty powerful moments on it, especially with the rattling, metallic, clanging percussion in the background. It sounds like sirens going off. Some kind of warning bell. Yeah. It's quite something.
Caller: It really is. Also, I hope you don't mind. During the duration of this conversation, I will be munching on some dirty Steve-O's pizza.
Anthony: Okay. So we're taking some Ws with experimental music. Is there anything else that you have going on right now that you want to say? You're just feeling the experimental music lately. Is that what's going on?
Caller: Yeah.
Sean: This is going to be an exciting one. Jimmy from Ontario who wants to explain to us what coworker music is.
Anthony: Finally, an answer to the age-old question. Jimmy is coming through. Jimbo, is that you?
Caller: Hello, this is me. This is Jimbo. It this Anthony?
Anthony: Jimbo. What the hell is coworker music?
Caller: Generally, it's like when somebody comes in, they say, 'Oh, yeah, man, I listen to everything. I listen to... I love rap. I love Beethoven. I love Spice Girls.' And then generally, when you say that you like everything, you don't really like anything. You're devoid of taste. If you know what I'm saying. I don't know if you've had somebody come to you with this attitude before.
Sean: Not in a very long time, but I am familiar with this mode of explaining your music taste.
Caller: I'll have coworkers that do listen to music that I like, and we'll align in that way. But there's always this guy, every couple of years or so, this guy shows up, and he's just the most eclectic guy I've ever met. Or I'll try to quiz a new coworker. If we get to listen to our own tunes at work, I'll say, 'Hey, man, what do you want to hear?' And he'll say, 'Oh, yeah, whatever you want to hear, that's fine.' For me, that's an L. That's a fail. If I'm trying to vet you for what you're into, and you just tell me to put on whatever I like, then we're not really anywhere necessarily.
Anthony: That's a damning admission there. You're silently judging. You're putting someone on the spot. What do you like? What do you want to listen to? And if you turn down the aux opportunity, you're like, 'I don't know if I could trust you.'
Caller: It's just not dynamic. It's not exciting. You're just letting me take the wheel, and I know what it's like to have the wheel. I want to see how you drive.
Anthony: Right, exactly. Exactly.
Caller: Also, I just want to mention, what are they called? Caravan Palace. That's I've had to listen to lately. You had to suffer through lately. I don't know if you're familiar with electro swing.
Anthony: Electro swing is-
Caller: It basically just makes you feel like you're stuck in a game of Cuphead.
Anthony: Electro swing, and listen, I fuck heavily with the Cuphead soundtrack. I love the Cuphead soundtrack. I will say that.
Caller: I love the Cuphead soundtrack, but the derivatives of, I'm not necessarily for.
Anthony: Electro swing is handily in my bottom five genres of all time. Electro Swing is most definitely in the bottom five. And there's some people, whenever I say that, people are just like, 'I can't believe it. What about Caravan Palace?' And it's like, okay, you did pick the least corny of maybe all the electro swing out there. But the vast majority of it, though, is basically getting a root canal at the fucking dentist.
Caller: Yeah. And especially if you're working. I know that you used to work at a pizza shop, and if you're working in a kitchen or a similar environment-
Anthony: Thank God, I never knew anybody who I used work with that listened to electro swing, so I never had to be subjected to electro swing in the work environment.
Caller: I have a feeling that you might have had a little more influence on what was going on in the aux cord at the time.
Anthony: Maybe a little bit.
Caller: I can't help but feel that you wouldn't suffer that foolery.
Anthony: But I'm sorry that you ever had to deal with electro swing as coworker music. I apologize for that. I apologize on behalf of... I don't know. I don't represent the electro swing community at all in any way outside of being white. But I'm very sorry that that happened to you.
Caller: It still happens sometimes. Now I'm a little more... I'm reserved. I'm polite. I don't have as much control of the aux cord as I used to, so I just let them do their thing and then try to find some work to do somewhere else, I guess.
Anthony: That's very benevolent of you.
Caller: Unrelated to the co-worker thing, I just wanted to mention that it's my birthday, and I saw that you had a show coming up on my birthday, and I'm making a big point to call you on... This is a big birthday gift for me to get to speak to you. This is a big gift for me.
Anthony: Happy frigging birthday. How old are you?
Caller: Thanks, man. I'm 38 years old today.
Anthony: Damn, old man.
Caller: Yeah, I know you're a bit of an unc as well.
Anthony: Yeah, I'm an unc, too. All right. Have a good one, man. Thank you for calling.
Caller: I'm going to do it quite well.
Anthony: Thank you for calling in, unc.
Caller: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Anthony: All right. Cool, cool, cool. God, electro swing. The thing that bugs me almost the most about it is like, I feel like a lot of the aesthetics of the electronic music underlying a lot of these swing samples is just very tacky and very bad and very generic.
Sean: Oh, yeah. It's bad up and down. There's nothing really redeemable. I didn't think real people actually listened to it, but I guess that's what coworker music is.
Anthony: I feel like if you took somebody like Squarepusher and you put a gun to his head and you gave him a bunch of swing samples and you're like, 'Okay, listen, put this on some real good tasty breaks.' He would do it against his will, but he would do it. He'd make it a little more listenable.
Sean: It could work.
Anthony: It could possibly work.
Sean: There's some house music in the '90s, like Chicago house stuff that draws on some swing-type samples. It's not my favorite stuff, but it's not bad.
Anthony: It's possible. All right. Jeez, it's Call Me Maybe.
Anthony: Is this Quentin from Indiana?
Caller: That is true, yeah.
Anthony: Okay, Quentin, what's going on? What's on your mind?
Caller: Underrated or overlooked albums. And coworker music. Because I don't think anyone's explained it fully well yet. You're at Subway-
Anthony: Is it just music your coworkers are exposing you to, or is it something deeper than that?
Caller: No, it's way deeper. That's wrong. You're working at Subway. You're working at subway. You're getting your friend's... You're getting your coworker's car because you're ready to leave the shift. And he turns on Juice WRLD. It's 2024, man. That's what coworker music is. This isn't 2018 anymore, man. We've got to wrap it up.
Anthony: Oh, no. So coworker music can be a lot of things, but it has to be dated?
Caller: It's dated, but it's popular.
Anthony: That's what it is. Okay. It's dated but popular. Okay. And maybe it's like a bit of an arrested development thing because I feel like there is a certain age limit to where you should be listening to X. I feel like within a certain age range, the emotional itch at scratching is fine. It's understandable. We've all been teenagers who are in our feels. But once you're like 32, maybe not so much. Maybe not as much. So it's dated, it's popular. What else do you feel like is a defining characteristic of coworker music?
Caller: It seems like a lot of... It's just annoying because they're always going to play in their car or they have a speaker in the back, so you always got to listen to it. Okay. Either one.
Anthony: Okay. I've been seeing a lot of people also characterizing coworker music as a lot of butt rock, a lot of Nickelback and Creed and stuff like that. It could be that, too. Does that also qualify?
Caller: That, and then you have stuff like Lizzo, I would consider in that circle of coworker music.
Anthony: Okay.
Caller: There's different genres of coworker music.
Anthony: Musically Lizzo's Pastor Prime, too, you're saying?
Caller: 100 %. You know how many times I had to hear her songs at Subway? I'm so over it. I don't want to ever work there again.
Anthony: I get so little exposure to subway coworker music because you guys don't have no good vegetarian options.
Caller: Oh, yeah. The veggie sub sucks.
Anthony: Yeah, no, it's trash. It's garbage. What the hell is going on?
Caller: I don't blame you. Best thing you got is a salad, I guess.
Anthony: Well, thank you for coming on and more thoroughly giving us, I think, a very, very prime definition of coworker music, man. I appreciate you.
Caller: Yeah, no problem.
Anthony: All right. Have a good one. Well, I think that's as good of an explanation we're probably going to get of coworker music.
Sean: We got to the bottom of it.
Anthony: Yeah, I think we really got to the bottom of it. It's got to be popular. It's got to be dated. There's got to be an element of like, you're still listening to this? This is still going on now?
Okay, there's the clips. You saw them. Thank you for sticking around. This has been Anthony Fantano. And remember, you can listen back to all of those old Call Me Maybe episodes on NTS via the link down below. I'm looking forward to listening back. You should too. Drop some of your favorite moments from the episodes in the comments down below.
NTS RadioPersonally, some of mine are when that one dude called in to talk about Paul McCartney.
"Without Paul, Ringo Star's still picking his nose."
And how Wings might potentially be hypothetically better than the Beatles, maybe.
Anthony: Because if they were better than the Beatles, what would they be better at?
Caller: Leting Paul do what he wanted to do.
Also another great moment where we had a conversation about the nuances and the finer details within the Latincore scene on the Internet these days.
"The, quote, unquote, white people shit."
But that is pretty much it for now. Again, we appreciate you watching and listening. This has been Anthony Fantano for NTS and Call Me Maybe. Until next time. Goodbye. Forever.
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