Legendary music producer, and (more recently) author, Rick Rubin appeared on The Ben & Marc Show podcast to discuss his new digital interactive book The Way of Code: The Timeless Art of Vibe Coding, describing it as “the punk rock of software.”

Rubin, known for producing era-defining albums by artists like Adele, Lana Del Rey, Harry Styles, Ed Sheeran, and even Lady Gaga, is now turning his attention to technology. In recent years, AI has sparked controversy in the creative world, particularly around its role in music and art. In The Way of Code, Rubin reframes AI as simply another creative tool, no different than those used for centuries.

The book combines demos from Claude AI (an AI chatbot alternative to ChatGPT) with philosophical excerpts from the Tao Te Ching, offering readers both practical and spiritual reflections on human–AI collaboration.

In Rubin's own words:

So in the past, for music, you had to go to the conservatory and study for years and years. Then someday, you could play in a symphony. And then, when punk rock came along, you could maybe learn three chords in a day—and suddenly there were all these bands. That made it for everybody. How I started in music was punk rock. If you had something to say, you could say it. You didn’t need the expertise or skill set, other than your idea and your ability to convey it. And why coding is the same thing—it’s the punk rock of coding. I think the biggest disconnect that I feel myself is that it’s such a strong tool that can do so much. We need some examples of the different things it can do. Now we’ll see it can make animation that looks like your favorite cartoon, and then you see a million people doing that. That’s one idea. I want to see all the things it could do to understand what’s possible—instead of just, "I’m going to get it to do the same thing everyone else is getting it to do." I think it’s beyond our scope to understand what it actually can do, and I’m looking forward to some of the people who push the boundaries to see what it can do.

Check out The Way of Code: The Timeless Art of Vibe Coding here.