Hey, everyone. Anthony Fantano here, Internet's busiest music nerd. Hope you're doing well. Today, we have an exclusive interview and conversation with none other than PARTYOF2. SWIM and Jadagrace have come through to talk with us about their brand new album, Amerika's Next Top Party, which is dropping tonight. It's going to be a nice weekend listen, hopefully.

Anthony: Guys, just for anybody who is uninitiated, I've been following their music since they had that fantastic grouptherapy record that dropped back in 2023. Since then, there has obviously been a lineup change, a reformation, a name change, new music, new album, everything. I just figured, and I know you guys have talked about this before, but just reorient people, because I'm sure that, to this day, you're probably dealing here and there with listeners who might have caught you or run across you, especially in the wake of my review with your last project. Then they're slowly finding out, "Oh, it's like they're still doing music, but it's different now. They're a duo now." Just to get people up to speed, just break down a little bit quickly what initially caused things to shift into duo territory and then to pick up the from there.

SWIM: Yeah, it was a crazy journey for us. I think, obviously, we got introduced to people as grouptherapy, as a trio. The timing was really interesting, because, as we were on our rise up, off the peak of your review, we had a couple of viral moments going crazy. We were on tour with Tobi Lou. That's around the time that we started talking to Def Jam and started getting serious about signing to a major. Then that was also the time that our third member decided to leave. It was a little bit of a shock for us just because, obviously, it wasn't expected. I think we were faced with a big challenge. We signed a Def Jam with no name, no music as a duo. It was a big challenge for us. I think that's what this whole era is really for us is a rebrand and a reintroduction to people as PO2. Yeah.

So had the Def Jam agreement come before the reformation? Like they had brought you guys on having not known what things were going to turn out to be as a duo already?

Jadagrace: Yeah. We were literally in the middle of it. And shout out to Tunji because when he found out, he was like, "Honestly, I'm still rocking with you all as a duo."

S: We thought it was wraps. We thought it was wraps. But I think they really believed in us, and they gave us the time to incubate and figure it out, which was surprising. But papers were on the table as group therapy before we ever split into a duo.

Okay. I guess going from there, creatively speaking, how do you guys feel like that has shifted your workflow and your songwriting process, especially in light of how how crazy, and we'll get into this, how crazy some of the genre combinations have been with the new singles that you've been dropping? Because you're not just merely at this point, dealing in elements of pop and rap and RnB, but you're occasionally bringing in these metal riffs. You're bringing in house music. You're bringing in a little bit of everything. So how have things broadened out so radically now that you've been reduced down to a duo?

S: Yeah, I think what it is, it's like, how do you feel? I feel like there's more space to explore our individual aspirations.

J: Yeah. And it definitely did take a second. We just locked ourselves in the studio and we're like, "Let's just figure out what our process is and not try to rush an album," which is why we dropped the EP at first, just to buy us a little more time. Swim just started producing a lot more. Our last member took part in a lot of the production. And so I think what we realized when we first started making music as a duo was that the getting beat packs and the usual process that we had was not going to work this time around. We wanted to be really hands-on, and Swim just started playing with sounds, and we just got really specific about everything. And I would say it's a lot more intentional. So, yeah, we clearly have been playing with a lot of different shit.

S: Yeah. I think it's gotten... We're in a very experimental phase right now. Not to say that we won't always be experimental, but I think "Just Dance 2" is the first song I produced that ever came out. A lot of it was us just exploring sounds, trying shit, and really trying to figure out what it is that we like. I think that was the switch that flipped for us while we were cooking up together was the first few months, we were working with a lot of other producers and not not super happy with what we were coming out with. As soon as I started getting behind the boards and just fucking around, we started to be like, "Okay, this feels closer to us."

Even with this album, obviously, we don't know what the reception is going to be once it's out and about. I mean, there are a lot of singles that people have been reacting to, but do you still feel like you're in a little bit of a trial and error period? You're finding out what PARTYOF2 is going to be depending on how people take certain tracks or certain sounds off of the record? You're just trying a bunch of different stuff and just seeing what sticks?

S: Yeah, I feel like it's interesting. I feel like we approach the album from the perspective of nobody really knew who PARTYOF2 was when we first started making music. And it gave us the freedom to not have to adhere to any expectations that maybe were previously set by Grouptherapy. We ended up shooting ourselves in the foot with "Poser", because it just went way crazier than we expected before we dropped the album. But I don't know if it's more of a trial and error and more so just us being way more unapologetic than we were before. It's an interesting position to be in because it's our freshman album as PARTYOF2, but it's definitely our sophomore album working together. So we're definitely just I'm not really given a fuck right now about that. And just making what we want. I think our biggest challenge with this album was, some of the challenges of the last one, which was, how do we make all of this cohesive? And so that was the fun part.

I guess before we start getting into some specific tracks, what do you feel like that cohesion is or ended up being? What do you feel like the macro picture is for this album that people are going to be able to get a glimpse of once they hear the entire album? Maybe it seems more fragmented and all over the place just hearing single songs and hearing some wildly different influences going into every song. But I'll say, especially from the music videos, the visuals, even down to the way that you guys are dressing and performing on stage, there's a lot... There's a very focused vision. There's something almost professional about it or I don't know. I don't want to say corporate or militaristic, but there's just the two of you, but it seems like an organization.

S: I love to hear that. I love that explanation of it. I think when we settled on the name PARTYOF2, one of the things I wanted to get away from very quickly was this idea that it's a party all the time, and PARTYOF2 means you're just going to get party music. Our intention with this was to set the foundation for PARTYOF2 almost as its own political party that you join and you're a part of, where you have like-minded individuals who maybe don't have a playlist where two songs sound the same, and they have eclectic tastes, and they're not looking for the same shit. So, really, what this is visually for us, and even just from a wider standpoint, looking at where this will be in our careers, it's really a foundation and a call to arms to gather up all the fans and make them a part of the party organization, right?

J: Yeah. And I think the cohesion in the album really just comes from us having our hands in the production so much. We just made sure that everything felt together, but also it's a little all over the place in the right way. And SWIM, we had a lot of hands making the skeleton of the track and then bringing in other producers to do things that we may not be as experienced as—

S: Live instrumentation.

J: Yeah. Which we actually didn't do a lot on the last album, and it just makes everything feel more cohesive and like an actual project from front to back. I'm very excited for people to hear it.

Picking on some of the tracks that have been released so far, far. One of my favorite songs of the year, point blank, period, honestly, is this "Friendly Fire" track that I have to ask you about the process of... Just because the concept in and of itself is so funny. I mean, it's been a long time since I think we've heard, I guess in this current era of rap beef and the way that it's progressed, for you guys to engage in it in a way that's low stakes. But also it seems like a lot of effort went into the way that you're, respectively, burning the fuck out of each other on the song. I have to know, I feel like there's got to be a lot of personal history there for you guys to feel safe enough with each other to just be like, "You know what? I'm just going to tear you a new asshole." And just be as mean as possible, but simultaneously, we know it doesn't go that deep and it's not that serious.

S: I think you hit it on the head. I think one, obviously, the state of hip hop right now, like beef and rap disses are like, they're at the forefront. I think we wanted to put our name in that hat a little bit in a way that was just a different perspective. I think we've known each other for 15 years.

Yeah, right. Exactly. How far does that go back? How did you guys meet each other to where you have that much? Because for people who are uninitiated, there's a lot of bars throughout verses that, again, just reading it on the surface, this person seems like they've known this person for a very long time. It's like, these are things that you wouldn't be saying unless you've known this person for over a decade.

J: No, I mean, really. And we roast each other all the time. And I feel like when we first became a duo, we were like, so obviously we have to do a song where we're dissing each other. Just because it shows... I think it shows how close we are. It's mind boggling to people. "How were you guys even comfortable releasing this song?" But it was the best decision we've ever made. It just was so much fun writing it. We wrote it together. We didn't have our verses to the side and laid it down, and we didn't talk about it. We talked We got it together. We wrote it together, and we gave each other the ammo. Go ahead and diss me, and mention all that shit that we talked about years ago.

S: I was like, "Yo, remember you paid for my grills, right? Don't forget to throw that in there." It was cool, because I think we instantly were able to set ourselves apart as a duo and as a group. Just in the sense of we show how close we are without making some cheesy ass, "We've been best friends forever," and some Kumbaya shit, but really showing how deep the relationship goes and that it's like, Yeah, there's nothing you can say about us that we haven't already said about ourselves.

J: Yeah.

In your creative process, there's obviously a lot of collaboration. There's a lot of stuff that you guys align on. But, in moments like that especially, is there, in ways that are less obvious elements of competition, too, in terms of being able to outdo each other or hold each other to a certain standard? In terms of, "I think that could be better," or something like that?

S: Oh, my God.

J: You have no idea.

S: Yeah. That record took a long time to make, bro, because we both had to be on a level that felt like someone couldn't just get obliterated.

J: Right. And I wanted him to feel going at me like that. I wanted the listeners to know that I gave him permission to go hard on me like that. Sometimes he was being a little too nice, and I was like, "No, really go there." That's the point of the song.

S: It was a great way for us to sharpen our skills, too. We had never really done a full rap record together. I think going into it, the intention was like, "Let's just sharpen our skills and see what comes out of it." I think, honestly, the tricky part was making it listenable, because I wanted it to be something that people enjoyed listening to from the chorus to the verses. We went through a lot of iterations of different verses, just making sure that everything felt listenable but still sharp and engaging. I think we just learned a lot about each other, and songwriting in general, putting that record together.

I mean, after hearing, I'm not saying this for me personally, but musically speaking, I wouldn't want to be on both of your bad sides collectively. I feel like if anybody should feel scared if both of you focus that energy on somebody else. It wouldn't be a good feeling.

S: I totally agree with that. I totally agree with it.

Let's jump into "Just Dance 2", because this was an interesting cut because it's almost like, again, it almost feels like a live DJed mega-mix of numerous different dance songs altogether. It seems like you guys conceptually wanted to do some dance song, but then couldn't maybe settle on one single idea. So you're just like, "Let's just do it all." Numerous errors and shades and everything. How did such a wild all over the place track start and come together from how you planned the seed?

J: It's funny you said DJ set, because that's actually what started the song. We were just a bunch of DJ sets and just loving how the transitions were so smooth, but how you can still incorporate so many different genres and sounds and influences. We have never really done a track like that before, at least released one.

S: No.

J: We started somewhere and somehow ended up rapping over house production. But I really am so proud of the way that we put that together, because both of our really show on that record. I told him when he was producing, I was like, "I want to be really singing on this." I don't know how we're going to get there from where we started the beginning of the production. But we made it happen. It's one of my favorite records.

S: I'm really proud of that record. I love how messy it is. I love that it feels like you're in the club, and it just is from one thing to the next. I think originally, it was It started with that first '80s hip hop bounce thing. And, as we started to progress, I was like, "Let's just make this feel like a DJ set." And I think it was fun because, again, we were experimenting and not making it with the intention of, "This is our first single," or "This is our next single," or this is whatever. We were just cooking. And I think, by the time we got to the end of it, there was just something about it that I felt was so powerful in terms of setting us apart as a duo.

J: I just feel like that's a song that nobody else can make.

S: No. I think it does feel like you're time traveling a little bit and bouncing through genres. But honestly, it's like that record definitely feels like a peak into my brain when I'm producing and cooking up. I hear so many different and relatabilities between these genres where it's like, oh, my God, I could just take the pattern of a house record but put trap drums under it at the end, and it gives it a completely different feeling. It's shit like that that we love to explore. I think we're always going to have records like that on our album where it's like, this is definitely not for everybody, but this is something that if you love these genres, you can put this on and just float away.

What are your respective music diets looking like to where, when you're creating, you're just making these random connections? Because, while you do have these throwback moments on records like these, it doesn't necessarily feel like it comes from a place of nostalgia. It doesn't feel like, "We're going to do an old-school thing." It feels like, again, it feels more organic and like, this is just a random idea that I have. Let's just do it, regardless of what time period it's coming from.

J: Yeah.

S: Yeah, it definitely was never intentional to make it feel like throwbacky. I think, one, I was watching a lot of "Martin" in the studio, and the "Martin" theme song was in my head, crazy. And I remember one time we were cooking up and I was like, "Yo, whoever produced this just went fucking crazy." But it's like, we're also listening to Bktherula.

J: I was going to say, we're listening to Slick Rick, and we're listening to Da Brat and Charli XCX. And what do you get when you are being influenced by those type of sounds at the same time?

S: I think we're always looking to the past for inspiration, specifically just for historical context. It's always fascinating to me. Like, literally today, we were talking about how... I forget what song it is.

J: Jade, "Don't Walk Away."

S: Yeah, but I forget the Tribe Called Quest record. It's not "Butter". It's another one. But there's a Jade record called "Don't Walk Away." There's a Tribe Called Quest record that has a very similar bass line. I found out that Q-Tip was in the club. He heard the Jade record and loved the bass line so much. He went and produced this other record. The historical context of stuff like that is really fascinating to me, because I think you can always be influenced by what's happening today, but also connect that through line between maybe where it came from 20, 30 years ago.

I mean, it's an interesting approach. I mean, I don't know if this is your personal perspective to both of you, but I just feel like it's just refreshing to hear because I feel like in numerous facets of life, be it music or something else, we just live in a very low context period. It seems like people just want to exist and create with as little context as possible. I think there's definitely some interesting outcomes there, like a lot of what we hear on the rage scene these days. It just seems like everybody's just following what each other's doing and just finding new ways to eke out a more extreme sound in that way. Nobody's worried about anything outside of that world and how that might sound or how it might work within that rubric. We're just doing this singular thing. But simultaneously, there is, I I think a broader, again, contextless trend where it seems like people just want to understand broadly as little as possible. Do you feel at all, creatively or personally, out of step in this paradigm where that that seems to be the prevailing sentiment, that either personally people don't make the effort to look into things, or whenever we're on certain social media platforms and so on and so forth, it seems like a lot of it exists just to prevent you from finding out more about a certain thing or digging deeper.

S: Yeah. You know what? I didn't really acknowledge that until we started releasing music and I started getting feedback on it. Even with "Friendly Fire", I'm from the East Coast. My dad is from New York, so I grew up in New York a lot. Jada is from LA. And so we were very intentional about me referencing Biggie in my opening verse and her referencing 'Pac. And one of the first comments I saw was like, "Oh, my God, he's quoting Nicki Minaj on his first verse."

J: Oh, man.

S: I was like, "What? And so I do feel like a little bit of a black sheep, but also from that, I've felt the responsibility a little bit.

J: I was going to say it feels like it's our job to remind people or introduce people to just the history of music. We're still learning. We did a lot of research for this album. It's just important to us.

S: I'm a nerd. I'm a nerd for it. I've also found that those are our biggest fans, the ones who are the nerds, the ones who love to dig and find where all these influences come from and inspirations. I think those are also my favorite artists. When you or you talk about a Tyler, or you talk about a Kendrick, where you can listen to their records and dig so deep into everything that came together for that.

J: You don't know how much they use samples. We do so much research on what they do, too, because I feel like, for some people, like you said, they don't really look into that. They're just like, "Oh, he just came up with this crazy bass line or this chorus." But then you do the research and it's like, "Oh, this chorus is from a classic song from the '80s or something." It's really interesting.

Yeah. It's a weird thing to slip by people considering how popular interpellations are right now. I think that's actually part of why they're so successful in the mainstream music industry, because I think a lot of record execs are well aware of the fact that a lot of these kids don't know what the fuck any of this shit is. We could just literally reintroduce it to them and have some other artists sing it, and it'll be new to them.

S: Totally. I think that was also our goal was very early on coming into the label. I was like, "We're not going to do that. We're going to do it in our own way. You will not give us a sample to flip and Jada just sing it, and we call it a hit."

Is that anything that in your experience, you've ever, I don't know what, felt pressure to do or anybody's mentioned or proposed the idea?

J: I definitely have.

S: Yeah, definitely not here at Def Jam. No. But previously, for sure. Then also amongst our peers at other labels and things like that. I hear it a lot. I hear it a lot.

Because just as an observer, obviously, I see it happening a lot. It happens so often, and, whether we're reacting to it on stream or I'm reviewing albums where it pops up, it's happening so often that I'm just like, "This can't just be everyone's organic decision. There's got to be some industry push or suggestion. I don't think you really have to think about it too deeply to understand the monetary incentive there. Especially if the label is the right's holder to the song—

S: One thousand percent. It's a layup.

—that they're trying to get you to interpret. They're like, "Oh, we can make money off of your song and then also the song that you're borrowing." I'm sure a lot of artists who are up and coming and younger are incentivized because, "Oh, well, this has already been proven to be a hit. If I use it, then it'll be a hit, too."

S: I think that's something that I take pride in in the sense that it's, like, our influences are there, but we're not cosplaying. We're not copy-and-pasting. We're taking them, and we're recreating something new. That's something I'm really proud that I feel like we accomplished well on this project.

Digging into that a little bit further with some of the other singles and then maybe some of the tracks that, obviously, people haven't heard yet, you've also got these riffs and rock influences popping up on some of the new songs, too. Where for you did that come from? Is it from, again, also just organically enjoying certain rock artists yourselves personally? Or was it even, maybe, a little bit more of a throwback, for a lot of people who might not be aware, that '80s period where you had maybe more of that rock/rap fusion going on where Run DMC, and the like, were sampling these huge, giant '80s rips on their tracks? Where is that coming from?

S: That was mainly it.

J: A lot of different places.

S: Yeah. I feel like... So again, just being a nerd, as soon as we sign a Def Jam, I just did a huge deep dive, and I was obviously pretty aware of the history before. But I was particularly fascinated by the fusion of rap/rock in their early days. I think it was AC/DC, maybe, their first album was with Def Jam, and that was so fascinating to me.

I didn't even know. I didn't know their first record was with Def Jam.

S: Yeah, it's insane. It's really, really sick. It was something that was surprising to us when we signed. They were very excited about our alt bag, which was something that we didn't really hear from a lot of other labels. And, so, one, just studying them and Beastie Boys, I was just like, "This shit is hard. It just is fire." I was super obsessed with that.

J: Not even to be funny, but we say it a lot. We were Disney kids. We came up on the Demi Lovatos and the Jonas Brothers.

S: [in unison] The Jonas Brothers.

J: The Hannah Montana. There was just something about that music that, like, itched a certain part of my brain. We just love taking those influences and making them us, and putting them in the future and mixing it with hip hop or something that you just wouldn't even expect.

S: For "Out of Body", specifically, I was really, really, inspired by Beastie Boys. And, also, Linkin Park and Jay-Z's collaboration was really, really sick to me. That's what inspired "Out of Body".

J: I remember Black Eyed Peas, too.

S: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Huge Black Eyed Peas. Yeah. Huge Black Eyed Peas fans. But I remember, as we were putting together the album, we had a slot on there that was just like rap/rock. I was like, "We have to do something in this bag. We have to."

Yeah, like a criteria of boxes to check. Yeah, We have to feel this rap/rock thing at some point.

S: We have to.

J: I don't know what it's going to sound like.

S: Also, from a live perspective, I love performing live. There's something about those rap/rock songs that, just live, they just go fucking insane.

They elicit a certain response. No, it's funny to hear the way you're describing this and think... I don't know. I mean, even speaking from my own perspective, I think the way a lot of people perceive hip hop and perceive nerddom, it's like, never shall the two meet, or they have very little to do with each other. But the thing is, I think that's a very shifting... That's a position that we've shifted to. When you go back and look at that era, you reference Beastie Boys, even when you look at something like the first De La Soul record and a lot of the hip hop albums that dropped around that period, before the labels and copyrights holders and the courts really started to step on sampling, and really put the kabash on a lot of that, when you listen to all those albums that dropped before that, you really have to think, "Man, all these random samples, all these random references, all these crazy layers and drops," and stuff like that. You had to have been doing some epically-nerdy levels of crate-digging in order to know all this shit in order to be able to be able to be able to sample all of it, and copy all of it, and know when to drop it in, and know the references. You have to be a library musically in and of yourself to be able to know all that stuff to use it in the way that they did. It's like you're bringing an awareness and an ethos that is at the foundation of the style that a lot of people aren't aware of, or don't respect, or don't care to know.

S: Right. One thousand percent. I think, when you even talk about rap from a lyricism level, when you think about some of the best lyricists, they're fucking huge nerds. And their catalog, and their word base, is huge, because they're nerds. They're obsessed with, whether it's comic books, or movies, or whatever, I think that hip hop and nerdism go hand in hand, and it always has.

J: We have a thesaurus and a random dictionary in the studio.

S: Oh, yeah. I keep all types of books in the studio while I'm writing. I think it's something that I take on the chin, like, proudly. In some of the reception for "Friendly Fire", we got is like, "Oh, they're fake dissing. This shit's corny." Or like—

J: "Hamilton."

S: Yeah, "Hamilton". This is goofy, because they're not being serious. For me, it's like, this is hip hop. This is hip hop. I think some of the best hip hop is nerdy, and some of the best hip hop can be silly and can be goofy. Those are all elements of hip hop. I hope that some of the reception on this album is just that we show multiple sides of what hip hop and RnB can be, because I think it's all one universe.

Digging further into some of these tracks, obviously, people haven't heard yet, what are some other influences and sounds that, maybe referring to the rap/rock tracks, that you also had aspirations, like other boxes that you wanted to check that you were able to with other songs on the album? What other genre combinations, or directions, can we anticipate to hear on the rest of the record?

S: The first thing that comes to mind for me is Tame Impala. I was listening to a lot of Tame, who's also dropping on the same day, so shout out to Tame.

Okay, so huge competition. You're basically coming out here and saying it's competition. We're going to see you sell more.

We're going to outsell Tame Impala. I'm calling it now. [laughs] No, that's the only other album that's getting a play from me tomorrow. It's definitely Deadbeat. Shout out to Tame.

J: Definitely. We're studying Michael Jackson.

S: Yeah, you were listening to a lot of Thriller.

J: We have a record on there that's very groovy, very playful.

S: Obviously, Ketra, that was a huge thing for us was having a fun dance record on there. And a lot of Kendrick Lamar. A lot of Kendrick Lamar. I was listening to To Pimp A Butterfly a lot.

J: Oh, [Kendrick Lamar's] Mr. Morale.

S: Yeah. We have two records on here that I think are a result of a lot of Mr. Morale and To Pimp A Butterfly being played in the studio. And yeah, the intro I'm really proud of. It feels very Tame Impala.

J: And the outro, actually.

S: Yeah, the outro as well.

J: Yeah.

S: The outro goes more pop, too, which is cool.

Talking about some of the audience reception stuff that you guys have experienced so far, thinking along the lines of some of the the fake dissing stuff that you just said, have people ever given you any guff for wearing your influences on your sleeves in the way that you have? I know here and there online, with one of your last music videos, there were a lot of people that were like, "Oh, that just looks like the Kendrick Super Bowl show," or whatever. Have people been riding you for making it clear that you're into what you're into?

S: Yeah, I've seen some of that. I definitely have seen that. I've also seen the opposite side, which is what we see it as, which is we're paying homage to the people who we look up to. The Kendrick thing is interesting, because we had wrote "Just Dance" and planned the video before the Super Bowl came out. I remember when writing it and choosing that sample, as soon as the sample got cleared, I was like, "This has to be Uncle Sam." I remember seeing the Super Bowl and being like, "Yes!" To me, it felt more like a sign of the times than anything else. And yeah, the shot we used in that was direct from "Not Like Us". I don't have any shame in taking our little references and influences. Only because I think our music is so original and our vision is so original, then we are so us.

J: It's nice to give some familiarity as well.

S: One hundred percent. A lot of people don't know, in for one of the shots for "Poser", there's a bunch of little Jada, and she's doing the choreography, that's a direct reference to—

J: Oh, Beyoncé "Countdown", the music video.

S: It's also a black and white video. I think I'm proud to wear my influences on my sleeve. I also think, again, this is our first time, just the two of us, making music together. I'm embracing the longevity of our career. We're just getting started. And so, as we continue to figure out who we are, and find our sound, and have more resources to be able to pull off some of the ideas that we have, things will more and more start to shape out and be like, Okay, this is PARTYOF2.

J: People will be referencing us.

Yeah, that's the thing. It's not like you guys literally did a one-to-one rip off of a whole video, or it's not like you guys write music that sounds exactly like Kendrick Lamar's music. It just seems to be a singular parallel, or similarity, or reference. It plays sensibly when you understand what you were just saying. When people see the way that you're presenting yourselves as an organization, or a political party, or whatever. In that way, it just makes sense. It seems like, again, it plays into a greater theatrics of vision that you have, which I want to rewind a little bit because, Jada, you had brought up, and, I imagine this has to be connected in some way, the way a certain era of Disney shows and movies inspired you guys. How much of the cutesy theatrics of that do you feel have made its way into the DNA of what you're doing now, in terms of the way that you guys perform and present yourselves outside of just musicians, but in a way to where you're acting and presenting a vision here?

J: We have a history of being in front of the camera. What can I say? I've been making music and making music videos since I was eight years old. I've always wanted to be on stage, and Hannah Montana was my everything when I was younger. I just always knew that that was what I wanted to do. It's just like that is in my DNA. That just lives through us, honestly. We love being theatrical, and we love putting on a show and not acting too cool. We just want to be the most outrageous versions of ourselves when we're making music. I do credit that to what we grew up on. Even "Martin".

S: Yeah, 100 percent. It can sound corny, but there's an element of hip hop that just doesn't feel fun anymore. And so that was an intention for us. It was like, I want to fucking have fun. "Friendly Fire", our video for that was like, "I want people to laugh. I want people to watch it and laugh."

J: Yes. And I love the reaction when people watch it.

S: Yeah. It's got some great reactions. But it's very intentional for us. But also, I think more so, it's just intentional that we're ourselves. And I really didn't realize that that's who we were until people really started calling it out. It's like, "Well, yeah, I am." I grew up on this shit, and this is what I enjoy. I think as we continue to become more refined in our craft, it'll just elevate. But we love to put on a fucking show.

J: Yeah.

Not even to make it simply a hip hop thing, because I feel like in a lot of ways, there are different pieces of media and platforms online where this is the case. But do you feel like we're currently living through a low fun, or a no fun, era? I feel like there's a lot of fun police out there.

S: [laughs]

J: Yeah, there's definitely fun police.

I feel like, if there's people seeing someone having too much fun, they're right there to be like, "Fuck you." Not only stop having so much fun, but they'll try to say the worst thing that they possibly can to you to make you rethink having fun again.

S: No, literally.

J: I specifically think about the hate that comes toward Sabrina and Doechii, and how theatrical they are, and how much they put into just their character as an artist. People just hate that shit sometimes. I think it's amazing. I think it's amazing to have such a unique personality. And, like I said, just building a character and being yourself. I think is so important. I hope that we see more artists doing that. And the police, they can go. I hope they vanish. [chuckles] We don't need it.

S: I think, honestly, it's just the fucking Internet and where we are right now with social media. Especially when you think about... Because there are different pockets. You've got Twitter... People on Twitter are a little different than they are on Instagram than they are on TikTok and all that shit. I found, specifically on TikTok, it's obviously a bit of a younger demographic. And there's this whole cringe culture that's like, you will literally see TikToks of people just mining their own business, having a good time, being themselves, and everyone's laughing because they're enjoying themselves. I definitely just want to go down. When everyone looks back, I want to be someone who was like, "Yeah, I'm not for that." Be yourself, have fun, who gives a fuck, what anyone thinks. I think we need way more of that. And I'm hoping that we are in a renaissance of people just fucking embracing that. Put the phone down, and be yourself, and enjoy who that is. I remember coming up listening to Tyler, and everyone was like, "This dude is crazy. He's corny. He's cheesy." He's all these different things that we've definitely been called before. And again, seeing him grow into his craft.

J: Now they think he's a genius.

S: Yeah. Now it's nothing crazy when he steps on stage in a completely green uniform and horns for hair.

J: No, really.

S: And no one bats an eye. I think more people need to embrace that.

Yeah, he definitely had to weather a bit of a storm in terms of how he presented himself. Now, it does feel like normalized.

J: Yeah.

S: Absolutely. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. Just to what we were saying there, in terms of the cringe culture, it also feels like an extension of that. Everybody's just desperate to be that one person that notices something. It's like, "Oh, I saw that you did that." It's just very odd. I think, again, it has a lot to do with how... I've said this before, I feel like a lot of us live under this false reality that comment sections are organic when they're not. Obviously, certain things get liked for certain reasons, and certain things get put to the top of the comment section for certain reasons, not just all being presented to you randomly. It's usually one of the fastest ways to get people's attention is to say, "Pick out the one thing." Everybody's like, "Oh, yeah, I saw that thing, too." It's gotten to a point where now content creators will, on purpose, be saying incorrect things, or putting random things in their videos to be like, "Oh, look at the random thing that I get you to notice in the background." It's just so fucking inauthentically gross, and it just gives me a weird... It just feels very baity, and it just feels manipulative. We just live in very weird, inauthentic, baity manipulative times.

S: One thousand percent. I agree heavily.

Look, beyond the album dropping, what else are we looking forward to on the horizon? More videos, tour, crossovers, anything like that? What else do you guys have that's, maybe, coming out soon in the vault once we finally hear the album?

J: More videos coming.

S: I think we got three or four videos, I think, right now.

J: Pajunata one drops tomorrow.

S: Yes.

J: And we are hitting the road for the first time ever as a headliner. grouptherapy, even, we didn't do a headline tour.

S: Crazy.

J: This is our first time hitting the road as a headliner, and I just can't wait to play this album front back for people. I'm just so grateful that we have this project to tour and so many new supporters, too. I just can't wait.

Have you guys mapped out the theatrics of the live show? Visuals, dance routines, anything like that? What's going on?

S: Yeah, we're bringing people into the PARTYOF2 world. One, we're having everybody dressed in a certain uniform, show up ready to join the political party. We're going to make it really interactive. We're actually giving out ballots at the show. And, before the show, fans get to vote on what song they want us to open up with. And so, whatever song wins, obviously, we'll play that song.

That's crazy.

S: Yeah, We're going to do some really fun things. Maybe a couple of special guests while we pop out, you never know. And then we've also got Camp Flog Gnaw, which we're really, really hyped for. That's on the forefront of our minds right now. That'll be before tour starts.

J: Doing a pretty ambitious set.

S: Yeah, that's going to be sick.

Even if it's just through a festival performance, how does it feel, given everything that you've said in the interview so far, how does it feel to have that endorsement? Because obviously, playing Camp Flog Gnaw isn't the same thing as, artistically speaking, as being called on to play Coachella. You know what I mean? It was literally Tyler's festival.

Yeah, that was everything, bro. That was everything. As you well know, it was like we went through a really rough patch after grouptherapy. To be honest, I was expecting maybe we would have to do a few more years of work before we got to where we were as grouptherapy. I remember even talking to the team and being like, "Yeah, I I don't think it's going to happen at least until we drop an album." I definitely didn't think it would happen before the album.

J: Definitely not. That was really reassuring.

S: Yeah. It just was the battery in our back of like, "Okay, we're on to something." And also, to be real, we got a lot of Tyler and Doechii comparisons when "Poser" blew up. I hated it only because—

J: It was just that song.

S: Yeah, I've never been compared to Tyler before, and I think it was specifically that song. Also, Tyler and Doechii were going crazy at the time. He just dropped Cornucopia, Doechii was blowing up. So I got the reference.

J: We love that.

S: 100 percent. But I was like, I hope this isn't how Tyler finds out about us. It's like a bunch of other people calling us Baby Tyler. And so to know that he supports and fucks with us enough to have us come to the Flog Gnaw was really a bucket list moment. We've never even been to the Flog Gnaw. It's going to be a crazy weekend.

Yeah. This will be one of the last things that I say. I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on it. But I mean, I'm sure you vividly remember that time period, and that era, where Odd Future was first popping off. Clearly, it's had an impact on you guys. I feel like with the way hip hop music has shifted over the past 10-plus years since that time, I feel like that era was marked by just this huge burst of new exciting independent artists who were doing a lot of experimental stuff for the time.

J: Yeah.

Even at that moment in time, artists who were well-established, like Kanye, came out with one of his weirdest records, Yeezus, and so on and so forth. These days, while I feel like there's definitely still an audience out there for hip hop music that people view as conscious or alternative and stuff like that, I feel like there's almost been a condensing, in terms of how much of that the audience is willing to accept at any given time.

Like, in the same way, there was a period in hip hop music where it seemed like audiences could only tolerate one super popular female rapper. Now, there's so many great women rappers out there right now, making waves. I feel like when it comes to whatever brand of hip hop people in their own heads might see Kendrick Lamar representing, I feel like they're quick to cut down artists who are trying to also do something alternative these days. It's like they can only tolerate a few artists at a time who are doing that right now. I don't know why. It seemed like there was more of an openness to people trying new things at the start of the decade. Now that we know what those new things are, it's like people want to hold on to them and not see them change.

J: Yeah. I hear that actually.

S: I totally agree with that. I think it's something that we take into consideration, even as it's probably a little too early to talk about this, but we're already working on the next project. And I think for us, it is always about focusing on what we love, doing what we love first, and not worrying about what genre it is, or what playlist it's going to end up on and just being authentic to whatever the fuck we're listening to and enjoying at the time. And I'm finding that, while it can be isolating, I think it is also our superpower. I think as we continue to just chip away at that category or in that bag, we will continue to build out a solid fan base who is looking for that.

J: It just takes persistence, really.

S: Totally. I think we're in a lane of our own. Gratefully, we're in a lane of our own, and there isn't another duo out there that's doing what we do. I don't know if there will be. I don't know if there will be. I'm just honored, man. I'm honored to be talking to you. For real, your review changed our life. I grew up watching your reviews, and you put me on so many albums.

I'm sure you hated a lot of them, too, and that's fine as well.

S: [laughs] 100%.

J: I actually disagreed with the rating for our album. I thought it was good.

S: Yeah, I thought you rated that shit way too high. I was like, "What? Okay." But I think you do create a community of people who are... What's the word I'm looking for? I think you I'm going to create a community of people who think about the music they're listening to. And I really, really enjoy that, because I think we don't have a lot of that these days. There's a lot of, like, judge a song based off the TikTok snippet. And the fact that you even do full album reviews, it feels like a rarity. So shout out to you, man.

I know. It feels weird to be doing it at this point, but I'm doing it.

S: Keep doing it. Keep doing it. Keep doing it.

J: Don't give in to the TikToks.

S: And yeah, man, I hope you know we're always fans of you, whether you give us a zero or a two or a 10.

Okay, well, it's not going to be anywhere near that score.

S: No, but I'm just saying. I'm just saying we appreciate you.

There'd have to be, anticipating that, there'd have to be five songs, and they'd have to be five of the worst songs I've heard in my life as far as teasers. We're not there.

S: No, I don't think we're there. I don't think we're there.

All right. But PARTYOF2. Thank you for taking the time. You guys have been great. I'm glad we were able to get this conversation in. And again, Amerika's Next Top Party, hours from now, just hours from now, it's coming out, and we'll be listening to it on New Music Friday, too.

S: Hell, yeah.

Again, I appreciate you guys taking the time. Thank you very much.

J: Thank you.

S: Thank you.

J: Bye, all. Peace.